[00:00:00] Geraldine Hennessy: Welcome to the Cork Creative Podcast. With this podcast, we hope to promote local creative businesses and people. I’m your host, Geraldine Hennessy, and today I have travelled to Carrigaline to meet with serial entrepreneur, Catherine Tobin. Catherine has over 20 years working in a variety of businesses and has specialized in marketing and branding, web design and business technology, and most recently the world of AI. From charging her brother for doing his chores at the age of 15 to now running her own creative agency, Clic Create, Catherine is the embodiment of entrepreneurial spirit, never one to shy away from hard work and seizing opportunities.

Catherine is a managing partner of the Society of Virtual Assistants Ireland. A community which she co-founded with her business partner, Ellie. This thriving community that champions and nurtures virtual assistants was born out of her early years as a virtual assistant. Catherine also helped set up Solicitors Growth, a vibrant organisation for solicitors that embodies a commitment to continuous learning, professional development and collective growth.

In this episode, we chat about her love for business and taking the leap into launching her first entrepreneurial venture, the importance of taking learnings from all your endeavours, keeping things simple, the juggling act of having three businesses on the go and finding your tribe.

You’re very welcome to the Cork Creative Podcast, Catherine.

[00:01:35] Catherine Tobin: Thank you so much, lovely to be here.

[00:01:37] Geraldine Hennessy: So over your 20 year career, you’ve held various roles in marketing, branding, web design, and business technology. Can you share what sparked your interest in business, how your journey began and how have these experiences shaped your approach to business today?

[00:01:53] Catherine Tobin: Sure.

So I don’t think there was like, I don’t think I can pinpoint one specific thing that like sparked my interest. I think just growing up, I’d always had an interest in business or doing something for myself. Like even when I was young, I remember like I had older brothers, I have five older brothers and two of them especially actually would be quite entrepreneurial themselves.

So, probably got some of that from watching them as well. But one brother in particular used to get us to do chores. So I used to like keep a book and I’d write down every type of chore. And like the types of chores depended how much was being charged. And you know, all this sort of stuff. That would have been my equivalent of like a lemonade stand, let’s say.Back in the day when I was young.

And then like I was kind of working from the age of 15, working and earning and stuff. So I kind of, I was always, I suppose business was always part of my life. And whatever various businesses I worked in and I worked in all different industries and stuff, but I always had it in the back of my head that I wanted to run my own business.

Again, I don’t know where exactly that stemmed from, but it’s just always been in the back of my head. I wanted to run my own business. So I spent a lot of my 20s, you know, between college and stuff like that and, you know, working in different jobs. I nearly always had two jobs. I was always, almost working a side hustle next to my actual full time job.

But, I think it was my early 20s I kind of, you know, spent a lot of time learning and went, you know, I did more college courses, did little courses like Start Your own Business courses, you know, different marketing courses and stuff. But I… it was always what was missing was that confidence to just push it to the next stage.

So I was always talking about it and what I wanted to do. But it always seemed to be a dream, and I was never making the actual plan to do it. And I think it was really when my husband came into my life, basically, and I do, I credit him with it. He’s a very creative person himself. You know, he’s a musician as well.

He steps outside of his own comfort zone a lot, and I think watching him do that, and his encouragement, helped me to start saying, okay, I can kind of give this a go, you know, why not try it and you know, I always use this quote when I’m talking to people, especially like kind of, you know, new people coming into the industry.

There’s a quote that says she believed she could so she did, but I always kind of twist that into “She believed she couldn’t, but she tried anyway”. Because I feel it’s more apt for where I was and am at different times in my life. Where, you know, I’m like, oh god, I don’t think I’m going to be able to do this.

But, erra sure look, let’s give it a go. And, you know, what’s the worst that can happen kind of thing. So, my mentality and the mindset shift, I think, really kind of helped me to push forward. And I think, you know, my first business, I launched what was in my head from my early 20s was a dress boutique. Wanted to run a dress boutique.

So I opened up a kind of vintage/ kind of second hand store in Cork City when I was on maternity leave with my first child. I decided, sure, look, I’ve loads of time here. Why not go and open a store? So I did, I started that and ran it for about a year alongside my full time job. I had my sister came in with me and she was working during the week when I was in my full time job and then I do weekends and I do the online shop in the evenings. But look, it didn’t work out. Like it wasn’t there, like to be honest, it was just a money pit basically. Like, you know, it’s very different type of business as well when you’re looking in the kind of products, business and retail and stuff.

You’ve got all the stock issues, you’ve got leases, you’ve got rates, you’ve got, you know, there’s so many things there. And then from talking to other people. Other retailers in the area was, you know, they were talking about they’ve been in the game for like 20 years and they’re still hoping to make minimum wage and things like that.

And I was like, this is not for me. This is not going to work out. So after a year I tried it and I said, look, no, I’m going to pack this in. It’s not for me. So I did. And, you know, at that stage I could have said, okay, I failed. You know, that’s it. Like I’m rubbish. But instead, again with that mindset set shift, I said, okay, what learnings can I take from here?

And one thing I did learn was when I was doing it, I was like, there are so much admin when running a business. There’s so much behind the scenes stuff they have to do, let alone just the handing over your product and getting the money in the sales transaction. There’s so much behind the scenes. And I remember at one stage thinking, you know, I can’t afford to take on an employee.

I can’t guarantee someone those hours and you know, all the HR headache that goes around that as well. And I was like, God, wouldn’t it be lovely just to have someone do a couple of hours here and there for me. And that’s what kind of brought me into this virtual assistant world and introduced me to that whole concept.

So there was a massive learning from what I already did, you know, that I took. And then I brought that into my next, you know, career move. Which has ultimately led to where I am today. So, I think that’s the approach then that I take into business. And when I’m talking to other business owners who are starting out, or who hit a crossroads or whatever.

It’s like, okay, let’s reflect on what you’ve done so far. Let’s see what the learnings are. Because there’s always learnings. There’s no failings. There’s just learnings. And if you take that positive mindset, I think, into your approach of business. Yeah, I think that’s one of the key aspects of running a business basically, yeah.

[00:06:46] Geraldine Hennessy: And recently you’ve shifted your focus to AI and are a self-confessed AI geek. What motivated this transition and how do you see AI impacting small businesses in the near future?

[00:06:59] Catherine Tobin: Well, I suppose what motivated is just curiosity. I’m naturally curious anyway. And I think, you know, being a business now, like being, working in various careers for 20 years and working with different technologies and stuff, and being in business myself now for 10 years, I feel like it’s a responsibility, stay up with what’s happening, trends, what’s, you know, what can potentially impact businesses.

I work with a lot of other business owners, so I do like to keep an eye out for them as well. So that’s why I do like to stay abreast of stuff as well. So I think what stemmed it really was just curiosity and then I just really enjoy it. Like I find it really fascinating. I love the creative process.

You know, I’m not creative in the sense that I, you know, artistically I can’t draw a stick person for you like, but you know I’d be creative in the sense of ideas and innovation, ideation, all that sort of side of things. And AI is an amazing tool for that because it actually, you know, once you work with it, it can really help with that whole process and then create these outputs that you might have in your head, but not necessarily you’re able to translate them.

So if you can work with AI to do that, it’s amazing. So the things it can do for business are it’s fascinating. I think. It’s one of the biggest shifts we’ve seen now since the internet, since electricity, people are saying. It’s here, it’s not going away, we have to embrace it, so why not sit down and learn about it?

So, you know, that’s what I do, like I said, I just, I love playing with things, I love teaching other people how to use it, I love finding better ways to do things, I’m okay with change, you know, some people are resistant to change, I work with clients a lot on that, helping them. But I do like change and I like to see if I can save myself, you know, 20 minutes, I’m gonna do it.

[00:08:38] Geraldine Hennessy: That’s the key I think with AI, sorry, it can be such a time saver. If you can, if you use it properly, I think if you work with it like, as opposed to it just taking completely over everything. Because I think once you have some sort of , you know, you know when it will benefit you and when you need to have maybe your own input as well.

Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:59] Catherine Tobin: 100%. Like it’s AI, you know, like artificial intelligence plus human intelligence is super intelligence basically. So yeah, combine the two of them and yeah, and just learn how to use it. Because like you said, if you’re not using it right, you can waste a lot of time and it’s going to be, it’s kind of, you know, it’s, it counteracts what you’re trying to do.

But if you learn to use it properly and well, it can save you that time, but it still needs you, it still needs you in it, you know, otherwise you’re just going to be, you know, banking out generic stuff, you know, it’s just going to be the same as everyone else. So you still have to put your unique twist on it, your own expertise and experience.

Yeah, but I love it.

[00:09:35] Geraldine Hennessy: And as the creative director of Clic Create, what is your core mission and how do you ensure your team stays aligned with it?

[00:09:43] Catherine Tobin: I suppose our core mission is it’s just to simplify business and the way we do business basically. It’s very simple. You know, I, what I found again, working with people over the years is. A lot of people use, there’s a lot of BS, let’s be frank, right? A lot of people use so many, you know, jargon and terminology and all these fancy words to in the end mean nothing really, you know, or their message is completely it’s confusing, people don’t understand what they’re actually trying to get across.

So, simplifying that, simplifying the processes that get science to that point as well is really key. So, I mean, obviously we do, you know, web design, obviously, and copywriting, a lot of copywriting, graphic design and stuff and marketing strategy and business development in general. So you could, you know, we have people that will come into us and say, for a website, you know, okay, let’s design a website.

What we do is try and take the holistic approach and look at the whole business as well, because there’s no point in just putting up a brand new spanking website and you know, it’s all the bells and whistles and everything. But then there’s other things in the background that are broken. Everything has to work as a whole.

All the cogs have to be working together. One cog is broken, then the rest of it is put off, you know. So what we try and do is simplify that process though to try and not overwhelm. Because I’ve found a lot of people are either not doing things because they were being overwhelmed. You know, they’re listening to all this stuff about, you know, you have to be on every social media channel and you have to be email marketing, you have to have all these funnels set up, you have to do X, Y, and Z.

And they get overwhelmed and in the end they do nothing. So, instead it’s like, okay, let’s pull this back and see what’s going to move the needle the quickest. What do we need to do? How can we do that as simply as possible? And streamline things. So, it’s, there’s less confusion. Means there’s less overwhelm.

And things get done. So, that’s essentially what we try and do. And as a team we take that on as well. We don’t have, like, we have project management systems. But we don’t have all these big fancy tools. I use a simple one called Trello because I love it. That it’s very basic, very simple. You can, you know, there’s lots of different features there that you can use, but you know, the core of it, it can just be used as, you know, a board where you put up your things, you can move them from one place to the next. You can assign them to a person. Whereas I worked with different ones over the years, like Asana and Click Up, but they’re all great. Don’t get me wrong. And you know, they have their use cases and everything and plenty of people use them and swear by them. But for me, simplicity is key. So keeping things simple, like I said, means there’s less chance of people getting overwhelmed and not actually doing anything.

[00:12:16] Geraldine Hennessy: You believe in a simple and clear approach to strategy and design. Can you elaborate on why simplicity is so crucial in effective communication?

[00:12:24] Catherine Tobin: There, okay, so there’s actually, there’s a guy I really like, he’s a marketer called Donald Miller. I don’t know if you’ve heard of him, he wrote the book Story Brand, Building a Story Brand.

He’s written several books anyway, but he’s a great marketer, but he has a quote that he says, which is, if you confuse, you lose, right? And again, it just boils down to basically keeping things simple and clear means that there’s less chance of a message being misunderstood or lost. And that goes through everything.

It goes through your own messaging. You know, as in your branding and what you’re putting out there to the world, what you’re saying on your website, what you’re talking about on your social media, all of that sort of stuff. But it also boils down to how you’re communicating with your clients, how you’re communicating with your team.

So simple is definitely the best in my opinion. You know, and that’s why again, like, you know, going back to what I was saying earlier and how our team works. We’re very simple. We’re, you know, emails, yes, we have a project management board just to keep track of everything. But, you know, we have open communication, even, you know, voice notes and things like that, just very simple.

There’s no, you know, formalities and protocols and how we have to respond to each other and everything. So I think just across the board, once you’re straight up in how communication is going to happen, especially with, you know, with your team or with your clients, you keep that as simple and as streamlined as possible.

I think that will, in the end, basically avoid any kind of confusion, whereby the message gets lost, a task gets done incorrectly, you know, whatever. Yeah, that’s why I think simplicity is the key to so many things, basically, but particularly communication.

[00:13:57] Geraldine Hennessy: And what current trends in marketing and branding are you most excited about and how are you incorporating them into your work at Clic Create?

[00:14:05] Catherine Tobin: So, like we talked about it before, AI, I mean, like that is the massive one at the moment. It’s the one I’m focusing the hardest on, I think, in, you know, we’re massively integrating. We’ve already seen huge time savings as a team using that, you know, for things like our copywriting and stuff.

We use that and we’ve shaped hours off of the work we do. So meaning we’re able to take on more work, which is great. But again, we still have that expertise going on.  I still have professional copywriters working with me. You know, like we were hearing when say Chat GPT launched in 2022.Oh, by the end of 2023, all copywriters are gonna be out of work and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And these are the doomsday prophecies. They don’t… they forget about, you know, 1,  people’s rate of adoption. Yeah. You know, is much slower than I think people give credit for , like, we talked about, the resistance to change and the way things are done.

You know, the learning curve it takes for people to get there. It’s still not perfect. And unless you’re someone who is content with just putting in a prompt, getting out some generic, you know, content and posting that, which I personally am not. And most of my clients, all of my clients that I work with are not.

You know, unless you’re going to do that, then there still needs to be massive human input. There needs to be that expertise to address it because there’s …While we use it, and it does save us time, we still… there’s a lot of work that still goes into it. Making things unique, making sure that they’re on point, on message.

That they are aligned with the, whatever the specific client is. And all that kind of stuff. So there’s still a lot of work to go into it. But I think it’s really exciting. What can be done with AI from, you know, from many points of view, but in particular, let’s say talking about with my business. From the creative point of view, from marketing strategy, from obviously content creation with generic AI and everything or generative AI, sorry, but yeah, it’s really exciting.

So I’m loving watching that. I’m loving watching, you know, different things that are happening with, you know, virtual reality and augmented reality, things like that as well. So, everything like that is really exciting, like the virtual and augmented reality side of things would be above, above my head now definitely, but I’m enjoying watching others doing that and seeing where the point comes where maybe we could work in certain areas around that.

But also what I’m loving seeing is, especially in branding and just generally marketing coming in, is, the social responsibility of different brands and stuff like that because we’ve been seeing it for a while actually people’s, you know, buying decisions are becoming more and more based on, you know, for ethical reasons and their own principles and their own value systems.

And seeing brands take that on board is great. And seeing that, that good shift. I mean, even myself there over the past 12 months. There is so many things that I’ve decided I’m not getting anymore and I’ve substituted them with other things that are actually more expensive. But because of maybe an ethical reason, you know, or whatever charity or, you know, I think they’re a human rights thing that they’re aligned with, it resonates with me.

And I go, okay, I’m going to go with them over this other crowd that we’re doing probably something that maybe I wasn’t too happy with. So seeing the social responsibility come in is for me really important and it’s something that I’m working on in our business as well and what we can do to be more socially responsible.

So like for even things like, you know, environmentally, like we, we try and make sure that our clients are using, you know, if they’re getting print work done, let’s say, you know, let’s look at recycled paper. Let’s see where we can make something digital that doesn’t have to be necessarily in print.

You know, little things like that I think even help. And then, yeah, and hopefully in the future I’m working on something where I’m hopefully going to be working with something that would be right close to my own heart. And the girls that I work with as well, the people that I work with. Yeah, so I think those are the most things, but definitely for all businesses out there, AI, if you’re not embracing it yet. Got to start. You really have to.

[00:17:47] Geraldine Hennessy: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. In your opinion, what are the key elements of impactful web design that businesses should focus on?

[00:17:54] Catherine Tobin: Narrowing it down. So first and foremost, I think is it has to be user friendly. You know, it has to be easy to navigate. Again, like I come onto websites sometimes and I see all these really mad fancy things and it’s lovely.

Yeah. Great, you know, it’s beautiful and everything like that. But at the end of the day, I’m like, what do you actually do? You know, and how do I get to find out? Like, especially when there’s like hidden buttons or you have to, you know, try and figure out, okay, what, where is this? Because there’s a big mad graphic or, you know, visual coming across or whatever.

So, user friendly is key. I think that’s foremost, basically. After that, like, obviously it has to be responsive. It has to be responsive across multiple devices. People are using, you know, mobiles predominantly now really so it has to be like you’re probably building it with that in your mind now really as opposed to desktop, even though I personally do prefer designing on desktop first, but you have to keep that in the back of your head like it has to be mobile responsive.

So they’re like, they’re kind of the most important, but I think, and I could talk about like, obviously, speed of the website, it’s really important, load times, you know, all that, it has to have, you know, SEO, you have to make sure that it’s optimized for that. I think something that I would still pass as design is your content, you know, because it’s really important that when someone comes onto your website within seconds, you’ve got seconds when they’re there for them to understand what it is you do.

So I always talk about answering the three, you know, key questions, which is, you know, What do you do? Who do you help? And how do you do it better than others? You know, and I think you have to really focus on that, so that people are straight away within 3 to 4 seconds, understand, okay, I know what you do, I understand.

They can then dive in deeper to more of the content. But with that in mind then, you have to make sure that your content is structured in, you know, readable and digestible way as well and that’s where it comes into the design as well, you know so like the copy itself is really important from the point of view of getting your message across of who you are, what you do, but then how you actually put that copy on the page is really important. You know making sure there’s…. and they’re little things that  seem like little things. They’re actually really important. They make such a difference .Your headings, your subheadings. You know, a lot of people are skimmers. They’re not gonna read big chunks of text. You need to break up your text. And I see it. Sometimes I go on websites and I see these big blocks of text. I’m not gonna read it.

You know? So, bold out the key points for the skimmers that go through in the subheadings. Are you telling the story within even the headings itself and the subheading? You know, or the bolded points that you bring out. So, that is all absolutely key. And it makes for a better experience. And it makes people stay on longer, because once they understand what you do, how you can help them, which is the bottom line, they don’t want to hear your whole history before they understand how you can help them.

They might be interested in that afterwards, to, you know, when they’re further into the consideration stage. Straight away, you have to catch them and say, Okay, this is how I can help you. They have to understand that. So, for me, they would be the key points, user friendly, responsive, and the content has to be, you know, on point, basically.

[00:20:57] Geraldine Hennessy: And what inspired you to co-found the Society of Virtual Assistants Ireland and what gap in the industry were you aiming to fill? You mentioned it there earlier about your own experiences.

[00:21:07] Catherine Tobin: So yeah, so I suppose I, I started out in virtual assisting. So once I finished up in that shop, basically, I had my second baby.

I decided, you know what, I’m going to try and go for this virtual assistant thing.

Geraldine Hennessy: What does maternity leave do to you?

Catherine Tobin: I don’t know. I honestly, I don’t know. I don’t. Yeah. So again, I felt like, okay, let’s go, let’s see what skills I do have. Let’s see what skills I might need. So I did go back and probably now I would say, not wasted a lot of time, but I probably spent longer than I needed to, you know, brushing up on certain skills and, you know, trying to dive into new skills because I felt I needed to know everything before I started.

And now my advice to people would be, don’t, like, just get started. Get started with what you know. But I did spend probably a little bit longer than I should have and I thought, like, I needed to have the perfect website and I need to have X, Y, and Z, all these things in place. So I probably spent a little bit longer on that, but got to the virtual assistant , launched my virtual assistant business, should I say.

And started out and I’d say for the first three months it was like crickets. Like I was just, I was so scared. I remember like almost self-sabotaging and my phone would ring and I wouldn’t recognise . Oh my God. Is that someone ringing at a shop? Oh my God. Can I do this? Can I, is it okay? Yeah. And but eventually got my first client and from there, you know, the confidence starts kicking in a little bit.

Got a second client and then it just started snowballing from there basically. So it took off basically within kind of six to eight months, it really took off.

I was still working full-time while doing it as a side hustle. Let’s say I had my two kids. And I just felt like, yeah, I mean, I was getting loads of work in and I said, okay, this is going to be something bigger than I thought it was going to be.

I thought it was just going to be some extra money that we could put for savings and for X, Y, and Z. It was bigger than I thought and I started getting a lot of queries, more than I could handle. And I’m very much a people pleaser as well. It’s a good thing and it’s also a bad thing. So I remember just kind of anytime someone would contact me and if I didn’t, I wasn’t able to take them on, I felt so bad.

And sometimes I would take the work on even if I was at full capacity, just to please them or not put them out, and I’d be putting myself under pressure. And I remember thinking at the time, I didn’t really know any other virtual assistants. I didn’t know, you know, was there many other people in the industry. You know, who could I pass this work to, who could I refer them to because at least if I felt I could say, you know what, I can’t take it on, but actually I know someone who can probably help you. I would feel better that I left them in a good place. I’m not just leaving them high and dry. So I just started doing a bit of research and seeing, you know, okay, how many other people are in the industry. And at that time, this was obviously pre-pandemic. There was people obviously working as virtual assistants, it’s not like it was a brand new thing.

It was a quieter industry, let’s say, you know, there wasn’t as many people in the industry at the time. But I found a kind of a few and one person I really aligned with was Ellie Clogher who had just started her own kind of VA business as well. And this was actually coming into the pandemic now at this stage, but I’d been doing my research all along trying to make a few connections here and there.

And I had decided that I wanted to have somewhere basically where I could send business owners. Where they could potentially connect with other VAs. So my idea was for some kind of a directory, basically, where, you know, people could get listed and, you know, say this is what I do and how I can help. And then business owners could go there and find someone to support them.

And then I would feel better about being able to send them somewhere. So I met Ellie, we connected and we got on really well. And again, we were really aligned. And I just suggested to her, you know, that, okay, look, you know, I explained my situation and that, you know, I’m at capacity a lot of times and I just can’t take on the work and I’d love someone to refer to.

And also I said, I feel like, you know, there’s other people in this industry that maybe need help and are in the same boat as us, or would just be nice to have someone to soundboard with and talk to. She felt the same. And together, basically, we just came up with the idea, okay let’s start to kind of a network, you know, a community for the VAs in Ireland.

So that came about and it kind of started basically as just somewhere for VAs to go and get support and then to connect with business owners maybe looking for support. So that spot, I suppose, initiated the whole thing and it just stemmed like most businesses do and how they get started from a frustration and just looking to solve it, you know.

[00:25:24] Geraldine Hennessy: Very simple idea though, isn’t it?

Again, simple, simplistic. Seems to be the theme. Often simple ideas are the best ideas. Exactly.

And how has SVAI evolved since its inception and what do you see as the future of virtual assistants in Ireland?

[00:25:40] Catherine Tobin: So, yeah, so, I mean, I suppose, well, when it started, it was just a Facebook group. You know, we just simply just said, look, let’s put it out to people that we know.

I had a decent enough base on social media at the time that the account that I was using at the time, which my business was called savvy solutions. So we kind of went out under that umbrella. And yeah, and we just got people joining up. And again, then we were, we’re in the pandemic then at this stage and more and more people were obviously thrown a curve ball.

And came across the world of virtual assisting and we’re just diving into it and researching and stuff. So it just stemmed really from that and just like I said, yeah, the Facebook group first. Then we kind of launched the directory to connect business owners with Irish based VAs and then from there, it just kind of evolved.

We just listened to what people needed. We had group discussions with people and live calls and just chats and it was really through that and through the help of the community that we decided to build on it. So we created what is now the Society of Virtual Assistants Ireland. We registered as a friendly society and everything.

And we now have, you know, training programs, so we do a boot camp for people starting out, kind of, you know, it was, it started out over six weeks, and now it’s kind of a do-it-yourself one, and along with that you get kind of group coaching. We have an official membership then, where you know, it’s actually the network itself.

So, we do like, again, group coaching calls. We have two monthly calls where we try and connect with people. And, you know, share what’s going on in people’s lives. See if we can help it. Again, together we it’s very much group learning. And that mindset, you know, of us coming together because. You know, as a VA, you might be working on your own.

It’s nice to be able to have who you feel like is a team behind you. You know, if you’re stuck on something or if you’re going through an experience with a difficult client or something like that, you have a place to go and sort of say, OK, this is happening. Has anyone experienced this before? Has anyone got any advice?

So we have all of that and last year we launched our first industry awards and we’re running our second year of that now in October of this year. We had a full day kind of event for that as well. And mostly we’ve, obviously it’s a virtual, you know, concept. So everything we’ve done pretty much to date was virtual.

Even myself and Ellie didn’t meet for the first two years of running a business together. Everything was done virtually. So it took us two years before we met. And that was at our first kind of social gathering. But last year then we had, yeah, our official kind of first full day event. We had speakers come up and it was brilliant.

And then we had an event the award ceremony that evening. And this year we’re running the SVAI Summit. So again, full day, full of talks and learnings and. Networking and all sorts. And then we’re going to have our awards ceremony again in the evening, which is really exciting. So yeah, we’re just trying to, like, like I said, it’s not that virtual assisting is new entirely, but it’s growing.

It’s evolving. The industry is evolving and it has because of the mindset shift from the pandemic you know, where people before, you know, didn’t think that they could do certain things online or virtually or remotely, whereas now they realize they had to do it and now they’re like, okay, actually I can do this.

So, so things are shifting. A lot of companies that would have been fully on site with all employees before now have the option of you know, either fully or in a hybrid mode to take on, you know, contractors in certain areas, you know, or even for certain projects that they’re doing as well. They have a bigger talent pool to work from.

So virtual assistants are more in demand from that point of view as well. And it’s become more and more known basically what a virtual assistant is, but we still find people going, what exactly is a virtual assistant? How can they help? So it’s just growing. I think we’re still in the evolution phase of it and we’re just going to see it growing in popularity more and more.

[00:29:20] Geraldine Hennessy: Exciting though, isn’t it? Yeah, really exciting.

Catherine Tobin: Yeah, very exciting.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. What are some of the main challenges faced by virtual assistants today and how does SVAI help address these challenges?

[00:29:29] Catherine Tobin: One of the main challenges we address, I suppose, is to help people find clients because, like I said earlier, it took me about three months to kind of, you know, I put myself out there, I had a website, I put out a few social media posts, but not much, you know, and I was nervous, so it is really nerve wracking, so particularly for those starting out, I think SVAI and the online directory and the job boards that we have there to connect business owners and Irish based VAs is really helpful, you know. So I think from that point of view, with helping clients, you know, as well as sometimes, like, VAs would have, you know, some clients on retainer, some, you know, clients that would be ongoing and they’d work with for years and years, but others might be project based, so they might have a client for a month, two months, six months, and then that client is gone because the project is finished, they need to find a new client.

So I think from that point of view, what we do with the job board and the online directories is extremely helpful for VAs. But one of our main points, I suppose, with this was the isolation side of things, you know, where when you are working from your own, especially if you’re someone who’s come from working in an office environment or wherever you were working before as part of a team, you’ve always had someone else there to sound board stuff.

You might have had a manager if you weren’t in a management role previously, you might have had a manager who was making the decisions.

But now, you’ve got to put your, you know, I’m speaking for girls here, but whoever, you’ve got to put your bigger knickers on, I should say, you know, and actually make the decisions.

Step into those leadership kind of shoes. So it’s, it can be very scary and very daunting. And then when you don’t have anyone day to day, the kind of just even chat to or you’re having a bad day and you’re like, Oh, you know, just have a bit of a rant or, you know, whatever you need to do to get through the hard times. To get through, you know, the challenges or simply to share the wins as well and share the really good times.

So, you know, so I think from that point of view SVAI, really helps out, you know, and people feel like they’re part of something. They’re not on their own. Like, we always say that. We’ve seen people say it in the group that if a client comes to them with something and they’re unsure, they kind of, sort of, they can say, you know, yeah, I, yeah, I can manage that.

And they’ll come into us later and go, Okay, guys, I’ve got this happening. Can anyone give me a steer in how to do this? And we’re there. We’re there. Yeah, exactly. Because there’s so many people across so many different niches as well that, you know, that there’s, nearly all of us, you’re guaranteed there’s going to be someone that does something that maybe you haven’t encountered or and then from the point of view, like we said earlier, it’s just even referrals.

Like if a client comes to someone and they don’t personally do that or it’s their own client and they don’t want to dive into this new area for this client, they could potentially work with someone in SVAI. There’s loads of collaboration that’s going on inside there, which is great as well. So, like, there’s several girls in there that are actually now working together on a team or, you know, like one of them is working as an associate for another or vice versa.

So, I think from that point of view, we’ve kind of built this tribe so that people don’t feel isolated and on their own. And that they feel like someone’s got their back no matter what they kind of do and take on.

[00:32:30] Geraldine Hennessy: So, kind of support and collaboration.

[00:32:33] Catherine Tobin: Huge, yeah,  huge support is our thing. And it’s all about… that’s what we say. It’s community, not competition. Collaboration, not competition. Collaboration. Because we’re more powerful together than we are apart.

[00:32:43] Geraldine Hennessy: Exactly, yeah.

And how did you become involved with Solicitors’s growth and what role do you play in this community?

You’re involved in everything.

[00:32:50] Catherine Tobin: I know there’s, I often try and kind of bring it down to what I do.

But there’s a lot of similarities in what I do across the board actually. Even though they’re very different. It’s very different client base that I would work with. But there are a lot of similarities that I can pull into each, like, so my skill set, I pull into every single one of those businesses, but Solicitor Growth came about because I was…. one of my very first clients actually was is a solicitor called Flor McCarthy, who is based in West Cork

And he is he’s my longest client. And basically, I’ve worked with him for several years, again, pre-pandemic. And he, Flor is actually amazing. He’s been like a mentor as well as a client, because he’s an amazing businessman himself. He’s really savvy, he’s really innovative. You know, he’s a great visionary for things.

So I’ve learned a lot from him actually. But then we were working together and basically the pandemic hit and for our solicitors, for those who don’t know, solicitors have to complete what’s called continual professional development. Which means they have to ensure that every year they hit targets of hours.

Which for most at that time was 20 hours, it’s now gone up to 25 hours for solicitors to keep up with their professional development, make sure they’re staying up to date with different things that are happening across different practice areas and then across the board with things like, you know, how to run a business even and, you know, wellbeing, solicitor wellbeing, all that sort of stuff as well.

So they all have to do that. And most of those events would have been, or those trainings and stuff would have been held in person, pre-pandemic. A lot of them, not all, but a lot of them. So what happened when the pandemic hit is solicitors are going to be struggling to find where we’re going to get these.

So Flor again, being the visionary that he is, decided, you know what, we need to help colleagues out, people are scared, you know, people are, you know, unsure of what’s happening, let’s start running a few webinars. So himself and a colleague of his, Martin Lawlor, who is the co-founder now of Solicitors Growth Network as well, they both decided let’s start running some webinars monthly. They were running webinars for solicitors and people were attending for free and coming on, they were getting like a thousand plus like showing up at these webinars. Like it was insane. So I was just helping basically with the marketing of those and getting it out there. And towards the end of the year, obviously as things were kind of, they weren’t going back to normal by the end of that year, but they were, you know, things were semi returning to certain things were being able to be done and stuff.

And they were like, okay, are we going to, what’s going to happen here? Are we going to keep this going or, you know, but it was, there was a lot of resources that went into it. Like behind the scenes, there’s a lot that, you know, you probably know yourself that goes into running a webinar from getting the speakers, from organizing the stuff in the platform for it.

Like there was, you know, all these email automations, there was CPD certs that had to go out afterwards. There was a lot of resources being used, you know, but the biggest thing that came out of it that the lads noticed was on the webinars, there’s, you know, the chat function and in the chat function,there was amazing banter and back and forth and you know people asking questions and checking in and all this sort of stuff and they were like it’s like people are craving some way of connecting like and this is a lovely way for them to connect. So I just put us to work that, you know, there was something he knew there was something more there and I was saying, okay, look, I think we could do something with this.

So basically together, we all came together then and decided to develop it into what it is now, which is Solicitors Growth network. So we decided to create, you know, a place for them to get CPD easily online at their desk. And it was out of time as well. Like we do it from 1 to 2 PM on Thursdays. And it’s, so it’s an easy time for people to sit down with their sandwich and, you know, take a break from their, they don’t, you know, it doesn’t interrupt client meetings or anything like that.

They can take a break, sit down with their sandwich and just watch the webinar and catch up and learn basically. But then what we wanted to do with that is not just become a CPD provider. Cause there was plenty, there is plenty of CPD providers out there. We do like to think that we do it slightly differently, you know, it’s.

We’re not as formal, let’s say there’s, you know, there’s great back and forth with the guests and with the actual, like we do some of them as office hours, so we invite all of the attendees on and anyone can jump into the conversation, which is really great as well. But the biggest part of it really is the support and collegiality side of it.

So with that, we created our own kind of app. So, we use a platform called Mighty Networks and basically we can have our own app because we knew we weren’t really going to get solicitors coming onto the likes of Facebook and we weren’t going to create a Facebook group or even a LinkedIn group for that matter.

We wanted to create something that was like free from distraction, free from algorithms, free from spam that was private as well because sometimes people are discussing sensitive things. So it was private and so we decided to launch our own app so we have our own network. People can go in there, it houses all our content so we have all the replays.

So again, people don’t make the live webinars, they can catch up at any time. And there’s a system set up where they watch it at whatever time it automatically records and registers that they have watched the webinar and they get sent their CPD cert automatically. It’s, you know, it’s all really streamlined that way.

But also there is this forum and again, it works very much like any other social platform, but it’s very private and it’s for members only. But people can go in and we see people asking questions of like that they’re going through, you know, a certain thing comes up on with the client that they’re working with, on a case that they have, they’re looking for recommendations on, you know, witnesses, whoever, you know, solicitors in other areas or in other countries or what have you. And they’re just generally able to share frustrations and challenges and, you know, just what’s been lovely about it is that, you know, Solicitors network, I think solicitors in general as an industry, like as a profession, you know, they deal with a lot of stuff.

Like they’re very overburdened and stressed kind of profession. Like they, they really do it. I mean, I’ve had a massive wake up to what they have to deal with and put up with and stuff. And it’s so, so tough on them, but I think that makes them then very kind of guarded, you know, in how they approach what they do.

And also for a lot of them, they are solicitors trying to, do, you know, trying to be solicitors and support their clients and do that actual work, the legal work side of things that they studied and, you know, they went through all years of experience to do, but then a lot of them are also trying to run a business and there’s, you know, there’s massive stuff that goes around the business like HR, the operations, the marketing, the finance, like everything else that they’re trying to wear all these hats and it’s, massively burdensome like, you know, so there’s a lot on them.

So being able to share all of that with people and for us trying to build this culture of support so that it’s okay to share, it’s okay not to have all the answers. We are here as a collegial network. Let’s encourage people to share. Let’s encourage people to support each other, not hold back things because of, you know, whatever competitive reason you think, you know, let’s just share and make this easier for all of us.

And that’s the community, the culture that we’re trying to build inside there. And I think it’s working really well. And we see people doing that more and more. And there’s some people in there that are just absolutely amazing. Dotes, like in what they share and how they help, like they’re amazing, like they really give their time.

There’s, I mean, I’ve seen posts that go in there where someone, I remember one day someone put in, I need a signature for something, I’m up at the forecourts or whatever, and I need a signature, is anyone around ASAP or whatever, and within minutes there was people going, I can be there in 20 minutes, I can do, you know, whatever it was.

And the same like that, just people saying, you know, can anyone, could I jump on a call with anyone who’s had experience with whatever, and someone will put in their number and say, yeah, give me a shout. Like, and it’s so lovely. So that’s the CPD and everything that ticks the box and that’s all great.

And that’s a benefit, but the biggest part of it is this support network and building on that collegiality and, you know, breaking stigmas and all the rest. And that’s the biggest part of solicitors growth network.

[00:40:24] Geraldine Hennessy: Okay.

What set solicitors growth apart from other professional development and communities for solicitors?

[00:40:30] Catherine Tobin: Yeah, I think that what I was talking about, the collegiality side of it and the support. You know, I don’t really think there is another network. There’s obviously, you know, different groups and societies that are very much needed and really important and solicitors need to be a part of those, but I think from us, like I said, I think it’s that art of it, is that it’s that, and from us, as I suppose, the people that host it and facilitate it, we can help to kind of advocate for our solicitors, like we can do stuff that other associations, let’s say, might have their hands tied a little bit, and there’s more red tape, whereas for us, at least, we don’t have that, like, we make the decisions, you know, between us at the table, like.

So we can do that really quickly. Yeah. And we can say, okay, look, this is an issue. We need to try and do something and help here. So let’s act on it. And we can do that. Whereas other associations, they’re vital and really crucial and needed, but they have their hands tied to a certain point and can’t do certain things, or at least can’t go about them maybe as quickly or in the same way, as much as they probably want to.

So I think that’s a massive role. But the huge part, like I said, for us is this, yeah, It’s just creating that supportive community that people and solicitors can feel that they can unburden themselves a little bit, you know.

[00:41:47] Geraldine Hennessy: How would you balance your responsibilities across like Clic Create, SVAI and Solicitors Growth?

[00:41:53] Catherine Tobin: Well, I don’t really, I think balance is the wrong word. It’s juggle. Like it is, it’s really juggle. And look, it is something I’m continually working on. I’m not going to lie and say I’ve got it nailed down. I absolutely don’t. Like it’s, but you know what, it’s something I found from working with businesses over the years.

That like from the outside I’ve been looking at businesses and, you know, been thinking, Oh my God, they do everything right and it’s brilliant. And then I could get behind the scenes of that business. And you’re like, you’re totally winging it. You know, you are winging it.

Geraldine Hennessy: You’re like the swans.

Catherine Tobin: Yeah, absolutely.

And like, so it’s, that has, that’s given me a lot of confidence in that over the years, I have to say. That like, you know, you obviously try, you know, you try your best to make sure there’s sytems, I mean systems is key. You do have to have systems in place, don’t get me wrong. But at the same time, not everything is as perfect as a lot of people might think it is in many businesses.

I’m not saying all, I’m sure there’s plenty out there that run like clockwork. But a lot of it is winging it and it’s being reactive to things and stuff. So, for me, definitely, I do not have that nailed down. My time management still needs a lot of work. But, I am getting there and I am putting certain things in place.

Like I you know, I have plans to take a bit of a break to kind of regroup. I think sometimes you do need to do that. So, you know, so I do have certain plans in place to actually regroup and sort of streamline certain things a little bit better as well. But I don’t.  I juggle, let’s say. I don’t have a balance.

I just juggle. And what I just try and ensure is that every week I kind of look at my, I look at it like my glass balls and my rubber balls, I have to keep the glass balls up in the air, you know, so, but every week my glass balls could change, you know, my, like my glass balls, obviously my family will never change, that will always be the glass ball.

But work is nearly always in the glass ball as well, depending on which, what it is and what the priority is that week. But then, my health should be in the glass ball, but it probably isn’t, to be honest, it goes into rubber and then I have to bounce back up every so often. That’s all it is basically, it’s just assessing, you know, week in, month in, week in, whatever day in sometimes.

And just seeing what the priority is, what do we need to get done. No, balance is an illusion at this moment in time. It’s a juggle and I’m getting there. I’m juggling it, but I hope to get better at that juggle. I think it’s an ongoing thing for many people.

[00:44:10] Geraldine Hennessy: And what are your future goals for each of the organizations you’re involved with and how do you plan to achieve them?

[00:44:16] Catherine Tobin: So, well, for each of them, I just want to see them grow and evolve, basically, you know, with Clic, I’m definitely, I’m going to be diving way, much more into the AI thing because I just, like I said earlier, I just really enjoy it. I enjoy teaching it and showing people how they can do certain things and seeing the kind of joy that they get out of the like, Oh my God, that’s amazing.

I can do this. I love that. So I’m definitely going to be going more into that. And I myself, I’m actually… I’ll be doing,…I’ll be studying as well shortly myself for coaching and psychology. So, it’s an area that again, I think mindset is a huge part of this. So,  I want to learn more about that from this, the psychological thing of, I think from a marketing point of view, psychology is really important as well as just applied psychology.

But from a business point of view and as an entrepreneur, I think that mindset is really important. So from that point of view, I want to dive into a little bit more of that strategically for myself and hopefully to be able to apply that with others as well. I’m working with others. So that’s my goals there.

And with SVAI and Solicitors Growth Network, same, I just want to grow. I want, like, we’d hope in both of those networks that we will be able to bring more supports, more resources to people, you know, we’re listening into what people need and stuff. And we do have some stuff that are, that’s coming down the line as well, which we’re excited about.

But it’s just going to be a case of basically listening, you know, adapting and Yeah, and then applying it actually, you know.

Yeah. So, that’s, yeah, that’s the plan. And then just to work with the team. We have a fantastic team. Right. You know, across the board, I have a fantastic team myself in Clic.

And in Solicitor’s growth, that team is growing. And they’re all amazing. And with their help, then, we’ll be able to hopefully achieve all those goals.

[00:45:52] Geraldine Hennessy: Great collaboration.

[00:45:53] Catherine Tobin: Oh, 100%. That’s what it’s all about. I’ll tell you.

[00:45:56] Geraldine Hennessy: And what advice would you give to young entrepreneurs who are just starting out, especially those interested in marketing, branding, and AI?

[00:46:03] Catherine Tobin: Well, for any entrepreneur in whatever field, I think find your tribe is a big message. Like I work with two, like that’s two networks now for different industries. And I can see the difference that it can make with people when they find people that are aligned, like-minded people and that they can soundboard things, share things with, you know, feel a connection with because, you know, family and friends are great.

And if you have people that are doing similar things in your immediate circle, that’s fantastic. But sometimes you have to step outside that main circle and find a wider circle of influence and finding your tribe is really important because you’ll need them. You’ll need that tribe. So, whatever that tribe is, just go find it, basically.

I think that’s really important. And then, in, like, for specifically, I suppose, marketing, branding, and AI and, again, I suppose it could apply across the board, is continuous learning. You are never done learning. You know, just because you learn a skill, Now, you do a course and you learn a skill, that’s not you done, like, everything changes, you know, from, I mean, I remember even starting out and, you know, the types of social media posts I was being taught to put out, completely different to what’s being put out now and what you need to be looking at and, you know, everything changes, everything evolves, just listen, keep your ear to the ground, stay up to date and always be learning.

[00:47:23] Geraldine Hennessy: Okay.

[00:47:23] Catherine Tobin: Yeah. Okay.

[00:47:24] Geraldine Hennessy: Well, thank you so much, Catherine, for joining us on the Cork Creative Podcast. If you want to know more about Catherine and the project she’s involved in, you can find links to her socials and website on corkcreative.ie .