Geraldine Hennessy: So you’re very welcome, Sarah, to the podcast.

Sarah Magnier Whooley: Thank you. I feel very welcome.

Geraldine Hennessy: To start, could you tell us a bit about your background and how you became the administrative head of the Clonakilty arts centre? And tell us about your role at the art centre and what a typical workday looks like.

Sarah Magnier Whooley: okay. So I was here on work experience in secondary school because I knew I wanted to get into art, I just didn’t know where to start. Because just when you spend your whole life drawing, just drawing, it pretty much just puts things into just, you know, I’m only just good at this one thing, so I might as well just, you know, keep going with it. And, yeah.

Was here for work experience was pretty much shown the run of the place. And pretty simple. Really just sit at the computer. Deal with emails and, you know, deal with anyone coming in and try and sell art. Because we do, because its kind of the sales in the gallery kind of keep this place going. And everything else.

And yeah. And I didn’t really see much of a career anywhere else, so I just stayed here. Okay. I, was, pretty safe here and I just, I just wanted to stay in my shell pretty much. But ironically this shell brought me out of it, so, yeah. Yeah. And I just, stayed, kind of, just stayed in touch with everything and just felt pretty comfortable.

But yeah, the administration head thing, kind of, it was kind of passed on my lap, really. There was another woman, Sheila, she would’ve been the previous administration head before me. But due to personal issues, she couldn’t be here full time. So she asked, “ Would you take over”, you know, you, because you pretty much know the run of the place with me being here for nine years of my life.

Yeah. I’m, it’s pretty much at the back of my hand at this stage. yeah, so that’s kind of how that happened. And typical day really would be just, as I said, just sitting around kind of doing my own artistic practice as well. So when I’m not doing stuff on the computer or setting up posters, dealing with ais for coming upcoming exhibitions, I just do my own art practice, which is glass painting, which is another thing that just kind of was thrown at me.

and I just kept going with it, rolling with the punches. yeah, that’s pretty much it, really.

Geraldine Hennessy: And you said there that it brought you out of your shell. How…can you just tell us a little bit about that?

Sarah Magnier Whooley: Oh, that, okay. So growing up. I was very shy. Like ridiculously shy.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay.

Sarah Magnier Whooley: Just always being anxious around people, especially as in someone in the Neurodiverse community.

You know, just, it’s, it’s a lot when you struggle reading people. And so you just pretty much builds into, you can’t really trust anybody, so just kind of keep to myself. Because as I said before, like it’s that kind of intense shyness is what kind of kept me apart from the rest of the community that I grew up with.

And then being here, it forced me out of it because, you know, being in a space where you have to be with people, you have to get on with it. Now, at times it can be very detrimental to my mental health, but, you know, just a couple of coping mechanisms later and I’m all good to go. But yeah, other than that it’s just, it’s made me grow as a person.

Made me grow to what I am like today. Okay. And. I’m still more or less the same, just a bit more out there.

Geraldine Hennessy: Very good. yeah. Very good.

Sarah Magnier Whooley: That’s pretty much it, really.

Geraldine Hennessy: And what’s your favourite thing about your involvement in the art centre?

Sarah Magnier Whooley: Favourite thing, I suppose, would be talking to different artists, because we do get different kinds of art and artists every month.

And it’s just, it’s nice talking with the local talent as I call it. And then international artists as well. It also broadens my own horizons on what art could be and what it is. And yeah, it’s pretty much just talking to different types of people and just booking everything, organizing everything.

Because I do, I’m a very organized person. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Trying to get this together, it was, pretty easy. Yeah. Thank you for that. Yeah. No, it’s just, it’s the organization side of things that I like and just being able to kind of just do my thing.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. It must be quite rewarding though when you see all the exhibitions coming, you know, to fruition. It must be quite a rewarding experience.

Sarah Magnier Whooley: It is. It did. It feels great. When it all comes together and it’s all done, I can then relax. yeah. No, no it’s great and like that, seeing how happy the artists are with the amount of people that come up to take a look and like showing that like we do, we have a comments book as well and they get to see what people think of their work when they’re not here.

Yeah. And it’s great and it’s even better when they sell as well. It’s, it’s, nice kind of seeing how happy they are, when they do sell something up here and it’s a very rewarding. Very rewarding thing indeed.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. And why do you feel there’s a critical need for a creative hub, like the Clonakilty arts centre in the town, like Clonakilty, and what benefits does it bring to the community?

Sarah Magnier Whooley: It provides an alternative for people who aren’t necessarily into sports because yes, Clonakilty is a very creative town. It is a very artsy town. But it also, it just, it prioritises sport a tad more. And it’s when you’re growing up as the weird outcast kid in the classroom, there’s not a lot of safe spaces where you can actually express yourself. Whereas this, we have all sorts of options. Like, we even like facilitate workshops for different activities such as soap making and that, and it also gives kind of guidance to specifically students who do want to pursue art. So like classes like. Creative kids and the Clon School of Painting, it’s a great place to start.

And then we also do offer work experience as well for students in college who want to do something like this, who want to be a part of something, who want to be a part of something.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. And the centre offers a wide range of classes from painting to darkroom photography. How do you decide which classes to offer and who are your typical participants?

Sarah Magnier Whooley: The typical participants? It would be kids wanting a new hobby. Wanting to try something, or retirees. They want a hobby or most of the retirees in town do art outside of here. It’s just having a space to structure that and focus that. Because it’s easy to say, oh yeah, no, I’ll, paint that in my studio at home, or whatever, you know, eventually.

And then they never get around to it. Yeah, of course. And then it is beneficial being in a space where you’re under the guidance of an experienced teacher. So if you do feel lost or if you do need a helping hand, the teachers and facilitators are there. yeah, no, it just, it provides, options.

Geraldine Hennessy:

Okay. Okay. And the art Centre hosts 12 exhibitions each year featuring local and international artists. What goes into planning and execution of these exhibitions and what are you looking for when selecting artists?

Sarah Magnier Whooley: So we do tend to kind of plan for the year. Just get a bunch of artists in for the year.

It’s mostly 10 slots that we try to fill because the other two is taken up with James’ Student Show and the member’s exhibition. And the 10 slots, we do an open call or we do invite artists as well, but we mostly do an open call. Because we do want to provide opportunities for everyone to show off their work because.

When you have galleries in Cork that are very much particular about what they put in, it is nice to be able to have a space, a comfortable space where you can show off your work. And once we send out the open call, we average at about 25 to 50 applications. So trying to narrow that down. Trying to narrow that down to 10 is a bit tricky. So we started doing group shows.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay.

Sarah Magnier Whooley: So it’s more or less just solo show, group show solo, kind of trying to balance that. Okay. Because a lot of times when we do get applications, we do get artists with very similar bodies of work.

Now some might be stronger than others. it depends. I’d like that. I’m not a part of the selection process. That’s more James’ area. but like that, from what I see in the applications, because I get them and I look through them, it’s very difficult to choose. Yeah. Because you don’t want….Because I know it can be very debilitating to get that rejection.

You know, being like, look, unfortunately, just, you know, all you can do really is just try again.

Because there’s only so much we can fill.

And then if we do, let’s just say hypothetically, if someone else was to pull out, like just go to the applications or just reach out to someone locally.

Look, do you have a body of work that we can fill the space? Then we do that. Okay. You know, it’s just, it’s, we have, contingencies.

Geraldine Hennessy: So when you were saying there about the grouping of artists, so is it like artists of that have maybe a similar type of work?

Sarah Magnier Whooley: Yeah…so if it’s similar or if it’s another body of work that goes with it.

Okay. Okay. We then merge it together and like that it provides an opportunity for set artists. Because a lot of these artists wouldn’t know each other.

Like next month we have Richard Winfield and Meabh McWalte, and. they don’t know each other at all. Okay. So we introduce them, because their work would be very similar in kind of the same vein of connection and just the human experience and nature. It will be… I’m actually looking forward to that one. Yeah. Yeah. It’ll be very interesting. But yeah, it’s just we want to give people an opportunity.

Geraldine Hennessy: Yeah. Yeah. And the most people that you can possible

Sarah Magnier Whooley: Yeah. That we can facilitate.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. And the art centre clearly has its finger on the pulse of local talent.

How do you foster those relationships and offer opportunities for people to participate such as through the Clonakilty Arts Together?

Sarah Magnier Whooley: So we have, we, we have a membership. They pay 25 quid four to show in an exhibition at the end of the year. But we also have a studio access membership. So you pay 30 qui a month to use the workshop outback.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay.

Sarah Magnier Whooley: So that’s where I’d be chilling out. So it’s more or less like booking a workshop space. Okay. Only you’re only, it’s a communal workspace basically. And the art group, it was started by Jacintha Darragh, because herself and other people in the group have been in different art groups, like say, Kinsale, Bandon, all of those places.

And, they just meet up at 11 o’clock, sit around, have tea, and paint and chat. Okay. You know, it’s just, it’s bonding. It’s bonding with other artists. Yeah. And getting different experiences and that. And yeah. All we do is facilitate the space. Okay. Whatever happens,

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. Okay. And you host diverse events like the Clonakilty Open Mic and Snag Notes.How important are these events for showcasing local talent and creating a vibrant cultural atmosphere?

Sarah Magnier Whooley: It’s pretty much just reminding everyone that Clon is a creative town. Yeah. That. We’re full of very, extremely talented musicians, extremely talented artists, and it’s just giving the space to show that off.

So like you’d have different pageants or events or matches to show off how talented like these individuals are at their craft or their skillset. And we’d like to be that as well. Okay. Just a platform.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. And all six of your studio spaces are currently occupied, demonstrating high demand. What are the benefits of having a dedicated studio space within the art centre and how does a foster a creative environment?

Sarah Magnier Whooley: It’s more or less providing a place for focus, solely for the spaces for art. So creativity must happen in this space because it’s, like I said earlier, a lot of the retirees or students that do art outside or even at home, find it difficult to even start.

Because it’s your own home. You know, you’re supposed to be comfortable, whereas with the studio space, you can focus , you can just line it up like that.

Geraldine Hennessy: I suppose you’re coming into the space and you’re coming to do art. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Whereas if you’re home, at home, you’re probably just distracted by everything.

Sarah Magnier Whooley: Yeah. It’s, yeah. It’s like, it’s the, it’s like the balance of if you were working from home in a regular office job, you know, at home you’re supposed to be relaxed. You’re not supposed to be at work.

Geraldine Hennessy: Yeah. Yeah. That’s it. The centre offers workshops and everything from Samhain mask making to soap making.

How do these diverse workshops contribute to the overall mission of the art centre?

Sarah Magnier Whooley: It’s providing a place for creativity to grow. That’s pretty much it, really. They’re always looking for a space to do their workshops and we’re more than happy to help.

You facilitate it?

Geraldine Hennessy: Yeah. Okay. The building, the house is, the art centre is going up for sale, creating uncertainty about the future. What are some of the challenges this present and what steps are you taking to secure the future of the centre?

Sarah Magnier Whooley: We’re reaching out to everyone that we know that would know of any property that would be available for lease or for rent.

But we started off with the council because the council have, they own properties in town that are vacant or are about to be vacant. And we also view this as an opportunity for a chance to grow and rebrand.

Because it’s great where we are right now, but it is not accessible to a lot of people within the community, especially the disabled community.

Like even, and it very much, it’s very taxing for footfall as well. Like we could be a lot better. Like I do…I see this place being a lot more than it is. And like we could. It can be bigger, more studios, just more space to grow.

Geraldine Hennessy: It’s a challenge. I suppose, but it’s also a great opportunity, isn’t it? Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Sarah Magnier Whooley: And we’re working with the council. And hopefully we will have a protocol for when it does eventually be sold. Because right now, with the way the market is, it’s going to be slow. We could be here for months, we could be here for years.

We don’t know.

Geraldine Hennessy: It’s the uncertainty. It must be difficult though, isn’t it? Yeah,

Sarah Magnier Whooley: Very. Especially when we have a full lineup of exhibitions for the year.

Geraldine: Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Magnier Whooley: Because it was the hardest thing I had to do was put in a little side note for the acceptance is, “Hey, your show might be cancelled if we, if the building sells”.

Yeah. Yeah. So it’s just, it’s. It’s a reassurance thing.

Geraldine: yeah.

Sarah Magnier Whooley: And it’s just, it’s not to be surprised. Okay. But, but yeah.

Geraldine Hennessy: So working hard with the council to try and secure a new location.

Sarah Magnier Whooley: Yep. That’s the hope.

Okay. Okay. And the art centres largely run by volunteers and community employment scheme workers.How crucial are these individuals to the centre’s operation and what are the rewards and challenges of working with the volunteer based team?

Sarah Magnier Whooley: Well, I suppose the rewarding part will be a part of a growing community And reaching out with the art, with the local artists and just being a part of that.

And then without the volunteers and the CE scheme workers, we wouldn’t be open.

Geraldine: yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Magnier Whooley: You know, there’s a lot that happens behind the scenes and painfully aware of that. Yeah. But, but, with CE scheme workers, it’s a guarantee that there is always someone here for a couple of days in the week, whereas the volunteers, it’s just volunteering your time And dedicating that like, as a full-time volunteer myself. Like my whole thing is I’m available.

Geraldine Hennessy: Yeah.

Sarah Magnier Whooley: I’m always available.

Geraldine Hennessy: You must have set a lot of passion though, for the place. Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Magnier Whooley: Yeah. No, I get to do what I love and I’m not. No complaints. Okay.

Geraldine Hennessy: Very good. And looking ahead, what is your vision for the Clonakilty Arts Centre?

I know you touched on it there about growing, but what are your hopes and aspirations for its future role in the community and in the broader art world?

Sarah Magnier Whooley: I mean, in a sense, in an ideal world, when we get into a nice building and like with this place, when we started here in 2012, this place was not great.

And it’s some bits of this building leaves very little to be desired. But look, the gallery inside in here, it shows what we can do with the space. Just give us a blank canvas and let us have that. Yeah, pretty much. if we do get moved into a new building, that is the hope that we could be bigger, more studio space, which means more room for local artists to have a local space where they can just walk into and then printing presses and just.

Just more accessibility to different art materials and

Geraldine Hennessy: yeah, bigger and better, so. Very good. Yeah. Thanks so much, Sarah, for taking the time out to talk to us today. No problem. Thank you.

So welcome to the podcast. mark, what does your role at the Clonakilty Arts Centre involve and what’s a day like for you?

Mark Whitesides: I suppose the, role here is, mainly keeping good stock of the place. Making sure that everything’s working within my capabilities to fix it. Doing places up since I started here, I’ve, I’ve opened up this room, which was a storeroom.

So between myself and some of the other staff, we envisaged having this as a gallery. To show more work, but not only the work of a month of the general artist that would be in the main gallery.  But also the work of, the mainly the other artists that come here on a Thursday Okay.

For a Thursday group. And they’ve kindly allowed us to show our work in here as well i.e the people that, that work here. So, yeah, I do that and the general sort of maintenance and day to day I would just keep an eye on the place, make sure the place is clean and tidy And that everything’s running and working fine.

And, with Sarah as well, just to make sure that every, everything’s going well and that we’re well ahead of ourselves. And, if I have spare time, then I work on my own artwork and, sculpture as well, so. Okay.

Geraldine Hennessy: You’ve had a fascinating career path transitioning from a celebrated chef working with fine porcelain and sugar to a gallery technician and artist focused on natural history.

Can you tell us a little about that journey and what sparked the shift in your creative focus?

Mark Whitesides: Well, I suppose it started back in the early eighties when I lived in England, in the east part of England. And, there are celebrated exhibitions over there involving all aspects of catering.

And which are known as a Salon Culinaire.

So I went in and, tried my hand at first at marzipan sculpture and then, and, sugar sculpture, which is, pastillage. And, sub subsequently over the years ended up, getting five senior gold medals to my name and when moving to Ireland in ‘93. A couple of years later, a friend of mine, she was an art critic in Dublin, said, why don’t you try porcelain?

So I went into that in about ‘95 and, had a kiln and worked away on a lot of very fine pieces of natural history porcelain. So it’s initially natural history, which is my first love in life. And the study of natural history. And I, with being as articulate as I was with the sugar work, I managed to get that very fine and render that down and, work away on that.

So, yeah. Okay.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. And you’ve achieved success in the cullinary arts, winning five gold medals that you’ve just mentioned for your porcelain work. How do you think your experience as a chef, particularly this precision and artistry involved in those mediums, has influenced your current work in Pen acrylic and sculpture?

Mark Whitesides: I would say initially, discipline.

Discipline and patience.

Geraldine Hennessy: I can imagine. Yeah. Yeah,

Mark Whitesides: Which you need a lot of today on a very wet day like today. Yeah. Yeah. yeah, it’s, I think a lot of it is pre-thought and pre-planning

Rather than just rushing into something. It’s, pre-planning of what you’re going to do, how you’re going to execute it from start to finish.

And, yeah, that’s, that, that’s, initially it. And luckily enough, I’ve been gifted with a gift of being able to do a lot of fine art and, studies of, natural history work both on paper and, you know, within the sugar as well in the catering trade. And, in porcelain. And at the moment I’m working in just using, air dry clay.

Geraldine: Okay.

Mark Whitesides: So hence the mushrooms there that I’ve got in the case. Yeah. Very good. Very good. Yeah.

Geraldine Hennessy: Your current artwork focuses on natural history. What draws you to this subject matter and how do you express your passion for nature through your art? Do you have specific subjects in mind?

Mark Whitesides: I study not on a professional basis, but I study on an amateur basis.

All anthology, marine biology. Entomology, mycology. Hence the, mushrooms. And, I’ve always been interested in that ever since I was very, young. And, yeah, that’s, you know, that’s the initial flame that keeps me going. And there’s always something new to find out or discover in any of those aspects.

Do you know.

Geraldine Hennessy: And you’re lucky I suppose to live in West Cork where there’s so beautiful natural history around us.

Mark Whitesides: Yeah. Well, from my house, I’ve got a view over flood meadows. So, and I’ve, my, my back garden, I’ve put in a pond there several years ago, so I get a lot of natural history, a lot of birds, a lot of dragonflies and all sorts of things around the garden.

So there’s, always something to look at.

Geraldine Hennessy: Yeah, yeah, of course. And with AI generating art now, how do you see this impacting the art world, both from your perspective as an artist and as someone who works in the Clonakilty art centre?

Mark Whitesides: AI, I mean, it’s, it’s an ongoing technology, which we can’t stop now.

We’ve already started it. But I’m more of a hands-on, more tactile to actually make things. And as far as art on Paper is concerned, I prefer to use my own mind rather than the mind of a computer to do a lot of the work, you know? It’s very beneficial. I mean, I know that the, you know, you can look up various different subjects and, looking at various, different things and the fine detail of animals, birds, insects, or whatever, they’re like that, so.

But I don’t tend to use it a lot. It’s, I tend to use my skills with a brush or a pen on my hands and just work things out that way, you know?

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. Okay. And working as a gallery technician and doing maintenance, you’re constantly surrounded by art. How has this daily exposure influenced your own artistic practice, both in terms of inspiration and technique, and do you feel it provides a unique perspective?

Mark Whitesides: Well, certainly the amount of people that come in

They inspire me as well. And it’s lovely to be around artists and sculptures and various other people that work in the arts. You know, because you’re constantly in and out taking people, showing people around the gallery or around the shop here, and you find that there’s, you have a lot in common with a lot of other people.

So it’s, never ending. Yeah. And it’s always a burning fire of, enthusiasm. Yeah. For me. Do you know,

Geraldine Hennessy: I suppose there’s that social aspect of it, which Oh, certainly it’s very important as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Whitesides: Okay.

Geraldine Hennessy: And as someone who works in a gallery setting, you’ve had a behind the scenes perspective on the art world.

What are some of the challenges and rewards of being part of a gallery, both from a technical and artistic point of view?

Mark Whitesides: Well, I suppose I’m always learning. I mean, I’m probably not the best handyman, but, I, I always try my best and always say, well, where there is a  will,there’s a way. And, you know, if a job’s worth doing, it’s worth doing well.

So I, I try and keep that. And I suppose with my 40 years catering background, it really, grounds you as far as, you know, I like to have everything just so, and clean, tidy, and, you know, look after the place there that way, you know?

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay, great. And for aspiring artists or chefs who might be considering a career change or a creative reinvention, what advice would you give them based on your own experience and what are the most important things you’ve learned along the way?

Mark Whitesides: I suppose one of the most important things that I’ve learned along the way, especially going back to the catering, is calmness.

To do things slowly and work through things in, it’s a, completely different environment here.

To a very busy kitchen where you’re serving, you know, from 50 to 350 people a day.

And you have to orchestrate people into different jobs and make sure that they’re doing things properly. Just be calm and give people the confidence to carry on instead of, you know, losing the plot or getting, annoyed with things, you know? Yeah. So, I would say to do things calmly and slowly, I’m able to do that slower here.

Geraldine: Yeah.

Mark Whitesides: Than the, than the fast madness of a very busy kitchen, you know?

Geraldine: yeah.

Mark Whitesides: Whereas I, I taught a lot of chefs along the way, probably 300 odd chefs, you know. Just to teach people calmly and get the point across.

Geraldine Hennessy: Stay calm. So

Mark Whitesides: Stay calm.

Geraldine Hennessy: That’s it. Great way to end. Well, thanks very much, Mark, for your time.

Mark Whitesides: Thank you. No problem at all. Thank you. Thank you.

Geraldine Hennessy: Thank you. So Donal, welcome to the podcast. Could you start by introducing yourself and describing your role within the art centre?

Donal O Sullivan: Okay. So I’m Donal O’Sullivan. I’m from Clonakilty, local man. And, I’ve got two things going on. I’m a musician and a writer. As a writer.

I’ve, got, three novels under my belt. None of them have published unfortunately, but I’m working on changing that. Yeah, in the second, in the last one. And, I’ve had, stories published in different journals and, papers across the country, so I’m just waiting to get the big one out there.

I’m a musician. Yeah. Like a lot of people here in Clonakilty, musical town, guitarist, been playing for a very long time, performing for I’d say nearly 30 years at this stage. and, playing a lot of different styles, jazz, mostly in the last decade. But also kind of, surf rock.

And I play a lot of different, bands here from like a jazz quartet called the Sus Four and a surf rock band called Surfside 61. So, but everything really, you know. Very good. Also in relation to the art centre. Well, I’ve been, a teacher, a music teacher here for the last, couple of years, so, yeah.

Geraldine Hennessy: Great. You’re, involved in the teaching side of things, so here.

Donal O Sullivan: Teaching side of things. Yeah.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. Okay. And you’re clearly dedicated to your life, to, a life in the arts. What initially drew you to this path, and what keeps you motivated to continue pursuing it?

Donal O Sullivan: Well, what drew me is, that’s a mystery.

I can’t really explain that one. It’s basic wiring of the brain. all I know is, it’s always been that way. I’ve always been interested in the creative lives and in, composing and creating. So I can’t really give you a proper answer to that one other than just the way it is.

Geraldine Hennessy: That’s the answer in itself, isn’t it?

Donal O Sullivan: Yeah. Yeah. it actually really is. so, and then, but you know, it’s hard to kind of, it takes a long time for you to understand that’s what you want to do. Because of,  as I’m sure we’ll discuss, the sacrifices involved. So it actually is, it takes you a while before you’re actually fully comfortable with that, you know?

Yeah. Because it’s not, it’s a, not a well-trodden path.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. Okay. And the life of a musician and a writer isn’t always easy, as you just touched on. What are some of the biggest challenges and sacrifices you faced while pursuing a career in the arts? Well,

Donal O Sullivan: Look, rejection is the big one. Like, you know, if, and anyone who says otherwise is lying, like you need a thick skin, it’s just, it’s, coming at you from all sides, you know?

And you need to just keep plugging away at it. And believing that, you know, that, you know that it’ll happen or, you know, that you’ll, so yeah. Look, you need a thick Skin. Rejection is the big one. But you got to stay with it. You know, the sacrifices are obvious as well. It’s not lucrative.

Income insecurity, the obvious stuff, but that is ultimately the big sacrifice. You’re not going to, you know, a normal career. It’s not a normal career. You know, you’re hustling really at the end of the day. And you’re spending hours and hours, committed to something and there is no financial reward for that, you know?

So, no obvious, financial reward for that. I mean, you can get funding. It’s, you know, you can, you know, you get grants and bursaries, et cetera. But, yeah, it’s not straightforward. Okay. So I would say, yeah,

Geraldine Hennessy: That’s the biggest one. Yeah. Okay. And how do you maintain your artistic commitment and persistence in the face of obstacles or setbacks?

And what strategies do you use to stay inspired and productive?

Donal O Sullivan: Again, the first one is a bit mysterious. I don’t really know why you stay persistent. You know. You just do. It’s just maybe in your, again, it’s in your DNA, you just, keep going, you know? I don’t like to think about that one too much because just keep doing what you’re doing.

Geraldine Hennessy: Yeah.

Donal O Sullivan: Stay the course, don’t give up and leave it at that, you know?

But, what was the other part?

Geraldine Hennessy: So what strategies do you use to stay inspired.

Donal O Sullivan: Strategies As cliched as its own, it’s all about goal setting. Really at the beginning of the year, you say, what can I do? Like, set, set, your goals.

So be realistic about these goals. See, you know, can you get a story published? How many gigs do you wanna do? You know, can you get this thing finished, this big project finished? Is it realistic? To say, I’ll be finished by the summer, or should you say winter, or should you say Christmas? You know?

Yeah. but if you don’t write down like really what, your targets are, it’ll become confused. And, by the end of, by through the year, you won’t really, you know, you won’t, you’ll be able to reassess when you go back and look at your goals list and you say, okay, well I did that and I did that.

Okay. I didn’t do that. You know. And you have to be acknowledge, you have to kind of stay positive as well by acknowledging what you actually did. Do you know? Yeah. Because there’s no point in, if you got obsessed over the things that you were trying to do, the goals that you were setting, and you came back and looked at ’em, you’d just be depressed.

Yeah. Because you’d see what you didn’t, what you didn’t do, you know, but you have to say, okay, well, you know, I did that. So it’s, yeah, that’s really it. You know? Be clear about your objectives. I, that’s what I say to myself.

Geraldine Hennessy: When you’re in a kind of creative life, just maybe keeping focused on some goals is helpful.

Is it you just to keep you going through the year?

Donal O Sullivan: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s no different than anything. Yeah. I mean, I’m always saying this like, despite the kind of stereotypes out that they, you have to be as diligent about it as you would in any other walk of life, you know? Yeah. You have to hit your targets.

Geraldine Hennessy: Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Donal O Sullivan: I, mean, people might find that hard to say in that context, but it’s kind of true.

Geraldine Hennessy: Yeah,

Donal O Sullivan: You know?

Geraldine Hennessy: Yeah.

Donal O Sullivan: And that’s, so that’s the strategy.

Geraldine Hennessy: So you’re also involved in teaching and sharing your knowledge with others. What are some of the key principles or methods you employ in your teaching practice?

Donal O Sullivan: Obviously you have to teach the core cornerstones and the, rudiments. so I, we’re talking music now. So, because I’m so, you have to hit your, you have to, teach the core rudiments and, you know, the ground rules. but, you know, there is a lot of room for flexibility as well.

Yeah. Because every student is different, you know? Someone embrace theory. So you have to be up on that as well to make sure that you can transmit that. Others, they just wanna know what they’re hearing on the radio, you know, which is, and that’s, so you can always teach, you can always, demystifies is the way I think of it.

Like, you know, I say to them all, you know, this stuff that you hear on the radio, this is actually what’s happening. And sometimes it’s very easy. So, very easy to explain and easy for them to get. And one of the core principles is that basically anybody can be taught or can learn. I mean, how proficient they become or how advanced they become is down to themselves.

But like anybody can learn.

Geraldine Hennessy: Great. There is hope for me, yet!,

Donal O Sullivan: There is, especially adults. Adults are the ones that, think that they cant. Yeah. Because people would send me WhatsApp videos of them, you know, performing a song or whatever. Yeah. You know, which happened recently, you know, and that would not have happened two years ago, you know?

Yeah. So, yeah. So it’s a combination of just, you know, not thinking that it’s so complicated that no, that it’s beyond reach for people that actually is, can be taught. Okay. You know, and can be learned.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. Okay. And what do you hope your students take away from your classes or workshops, both in terms of skills and a deeper understanding of the arts?

Donal O Sullivan: Well, I mean, it’s, like I said earlier, I just want ’em to have some kind of core understanding that, like, about music. I mean, it’s not as complex as it initially sounds, you know? I mean, that’s even something that I realize even as you go along, you know? Sometimes you, know, you sort go, all right, okay.

That wasn’t as complex as I thought. Yeah. just, to have some core, understanding of things like structure. And some, you know, scales and keys, and some just have a, have an understanding of the basics, but then being able be able to tailor that then to themselves, you know?

Geraldine Hennessy Yeah.

Donal O Sullivan: Yeah. So, and, have a kind of a, I know it’s a bit of a cliche, but have a bit of a holistic approach. Like, because like, and bringing in other things like, like sport and all this kind of stuff, it’s all kind of linked up. So, you know, just like sport requires training and requires doing drills and dedication, so does, learning and instruments, you know, all that kind of stuff.

Geraldine Hennessy: I suppose if you teach the basics, you know, to like say a child or whatever, there’s always that potential of them coming back later on in life. You know, that if you just plant that little seed, maybe.

Donal O Sullivan: Oh, absolutely. Like, because what you want is that child say, they give up at 14 or something like that, but then in 20 years time they might pick it up and they might play, all they need is three cords right?

Yeah. Three chord and the truth.

That they’ll still be able to pick it up 20 years later and go, well, I know my D my G and my A, so they might make some kind of crack at accompanying, Session learning a song or, you know. Yeah. So, you know, just, yeah. it’s a tool to make your life better, and then if you want to take it further and be a professional musician, we could talk about that.

Like Okay. You know?

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. Okay. And how did education influence your own work and what you think makes a great teacher?

Donal O Sullivan: Well, I actually laugh sometimes because I think … my approach is very similar to the approach of the people who I learned from. Like, okay. Yeah. So I had a couple of, really good, you know, music guitar teachers Yeah.

Who ran their own private tuition businesses out of their own homes. And, it was, you know, And I, you know, everything from here in Clon and when I lived abroad. I just, I seem to be able to root these guys out, like, you know, but, you know, I mean, so people that were respectful and, you know, not, not saying that we were like, you know, friendships or anything like that, or, but just there was respect and there was you know, you know, having a bit of crack in the class as well, and not, taking it too seriously, but also knowing what you needed to do. Yeah. But yeah, like, I mean, I’ve had some, I’ve been lucky, I’ve had some brilliant teachers, like, you know, when I lived here in Clon and then when I lived in France, I had a, yeah, I studied flamenco guitar for a few years and in France and in, in Spain, in Grenada, in Spain. I had, Some great teachers, like, you know,

Geraldine Hennessy: So they’ve kind of shaped the way you’ve now passed on.

Donal O Sullivan: They’re, yeah, they definitely shaped the way my approach to, teaching. Yeah. Okay. Because I do laugh sometimes because I’m basically repeating things that were said to me when I was a kid.

Geraldine Hennessy:

It’s like, with your parents here, you think, well, I’ll never be like my parents. And then you turn into, “oh my God, what did I just say? “Exactly. Yeah.

So could you describe your artistic style, both in terms of your music and writing, and what form does that style typically take in terms of genre, lyrical context, or musical arrangements?

And how would you characterize your specific approach to the creative process in each discipline? Are there any particular techniques or philosophies that guide you when you’re composing a song versus writing or prose?

Donal O Sullivan: Well, let’s see now that was a long one., I can describe my style, I suppose my approach, because they’re very different, the two of them.

Writing is, realist realism. in all kinds of different settings, but exploring core human emotion and motive and psychology. And how, just real, life setting and real life, scenarios. and just, but maybe in unusual settings.

But like, for example, my most recent work is a historical biblical setting. But rather than hearing what these stories, which are always told in transcendental divine and usual ways, think about what if these characters were real people, you know, and driven by various, you know, quirks and idiosyncrasies and emotional lives and various motives and with qualities and, shortcomings, you know, like real people, you know. Yeah. which is, so it’s a, yeah, I suppose it’s quite psychological, you know.

My music, I don’t really compose, you know? Okay. As such, like, I’m just more of a kind of a gun for hire. I play different things, but I mean, you, when you play jazz, you have to improvise a lot.

So you just work, work, work at that like, you know, you just study. The other thing about the approach is that you have, people tend to forget that. Like, you, have to like, learn how to edit and learn how to abandon ideas. Because if you, everyone thinks I have loads of ideas, but they forget they have to do the work, you know?

Yeah. So you commit yourself to one and you spew out as many, as much crap as you have, and then edit it and refine it later. You know, it’s all, that’s where the quality comes from. Okay. You know?

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay.

Donal O Sullivan: A diamond is somewhere in the stone. Exactly. You gotta choose the stone.

Geraldine Hennessy: Yeah. Yeah. You just have to fine tune it down a little bit, maybe.

Donal O Sullivan: Exactly. But don’t be afraid to spew out.

Geraldine Hennessy: Yeah. All the stuff.

Donal O Sullivan: All the stuff. And then,  come back to it like, you know, work away.

Geraldine Hennessy: Where do you find inspiration for your work? Are there any particular artists or writers or musicians who’ve had a significant influence on you?

Donal O Sullivan: Well, so yeah, there’s loads.

Its a long list. Long list. Yeah. But, yeah, I, you know, you know, musically you’re talking about really strong, uncompromising artists like, Kate Bush and Tom Waits and, all these people, you know, like, flamenco would be Pacp de Lucía, Vicente Amigo, you know, players like that. you know, I like, you know, a lot of people like painters, the lives of painters like Cezanne, you know?

Slow burners like Cexanne, or else just, people who just kind of burn hard, you know, the whole time, like Picasso. Yeah. So it’s varied, you know, but, it’s really varied, but I just like strong uncompromising, original artists, you know, but there’s a lot of people coming up, even today, it’s, they’re not getting as much exposure as they used to.

It used to be a lot easier before, but now anyone kind of emerging, you know, there’s so many great kind of artists and musicians coming out of Ireland, like, you know, Rachael Lavelle and more like Ola Gartland and the band, Soda Blonde and Fontaine D.C and you know, you just, you gotta look for them as well.

Yeah. You know, you gotta find them. You gotta commit yourself to find them, but they are there

Geraldine: Yeah. Yeah.

Donal O Sullivan: You’re just not going to… They just won’t be shown to you, you know? Okay.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. And what advice would you give to aspiring musicians or writers who are just starting out or who are struggling to find their own voice?

Donal O Sullivan: You know, feel the pain, but keep going for it. Yeah. Get used to the struggle. Yeah. You know, get used to the, the low income, you know, get, get a thick skin. No harm, having a bit of a support network, you know, people who obviously are experiencing the same as you. That’s basically it really.

Geraldine Hennessy: It’s hard, but it’s it worth it, do you think?

Donal O Sullivan: Well, it is worth it. Yeah. Yeah. It is worth it. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. But otherwise, you know, it wouldn’t happen. No, it’s worth it. And it will be worth it, you know? It’s worth it when this, when you get the, success.

Or, you know, when I do you get published or for example, you know, in my case, if I find myself, if I get published or nominated for something or someone shows interest in your work or else if, you know, you’re on stage playing with somebody who you’ve always looked up to.

And suddenly you’re deemed good enough to be able to support them on stage or something like that. If you get validation, you know, then it makes it worthwhile. Like, but, you just have to get used to the pain and, the struggle. Yeah.

Geraldine Hennessy: Looking back on your journey so far, what are you most proud of and what are your hopes for the future?

Donal O Sullivan: Most proud of anything that’s, that’s come out with my name on it. Like, I really hope to get some other stuff out there, you know? And, so my, you know, I have a couple of really big goals that I want and I’m not changing now, you know? S o, and you know, you want to be…

Sorry, the other thing about the, my advice for the other people coming up Is obviously you’re gonna have to get a part-time job, right. So you’re gonna have to make sure you use your time, you use your time, really well and when you’re not working, that you have to, take the most of what the time that you got Yeah.

And don’t let it slide. Okay. But hopes for the future, just like continue to try and hit the goals that have set myself every year, like so, you know, get work out there with my name on it.

Geraldine Hennessy: Very good.

Donal O Sullivan: Yeah.

Geraldine Hennessy: Keep going. So basically that’s great. Thanks so much for your time to, you’re, thank you. Welcome. Thank you.

Okay, great.

So you’re very welcome to the podcast, James.

James Waller: Thank you very much

Geraldine Hennessy: For those unfamiliar with your work. Could you give us a brief product, introduction to yourself and your artistic journey?

James Waller: yes. My name is James Waller. I’m an artist from Australia. I moved here in 2014 and I’m working in a kind of neo baroque style.

So it’s looking at, the work of painters such as Rembrandt and Caravaggio and bringing that into a contemporary context. And I’d see myself as part of a whole revival in realism that’s been going on over the last couple of decades.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. And how did you come to be the director of the art centre?

James Waller: I wouldn’t say the director. We have a board of directors. Okay. I’m one of four.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay.

James Waller: And, it just happens that I have a studio here as well, so I’m always here. so I have the, probably the most to do with our CE team and, volunteers.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. And tell us about your role, so here within the art centre and what a typical workday looks like.

James Waller: Right. So, I give direction and guidance along with the other directors to our CE scheme team. And, our volunteers. And at this stage, things are very much set up, like it’s a very smooth operation. So there’s not that much intervention required, but, with the kind of structure we’ve got, what I’ve found is necessary is to provide some vision.

And some clear structures. So when something like, the sale of the building we’re in comes up, we need to kind of scramble, get our heads together and see what is the best way forward. So that’s kind of my role. Is looking ahead, looking, thinking of ideas, how we can expand on what we’re doing, how we can, how we can grow and, mature as an organization, how we can get better at what we’re doing.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. Okay. So you’ve lived and worked in both Australia and Ireland. What initially drew you to relocate to West Cork? And how has that impacted your art?

James Waller: That’s a big life story. So, I guess my father’s from Britain. I grew up in Australia. I’ve always had the British passport and always wanted to use it.

And the relationship I was in ended and I thought this is a great time for a big change. And, I had friends already here in Clonakilty that I knew from Melbourne. So I went on a three month trip around Europe and I ended up here.

And thought, wow, this would be a, an easy place for me to relocate to If anywhere in Europe. So I went back to Australia for nine months and then, came back to live.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. And your work, you spoke about it there briefly, it’s large, largely figurative, which could be seen in the many beautiful pieces on display in your exhibition. What draws you to figurative painting, especially in an increasingly abstract and digital world?

James Waller: Well, first of all, I assume you mean the art world. Yeah. and I would say that probably the opposite is true. Okay. What we’re seeing is a big movement back towards figuration. Okay. Across the board and why that happens is that, well, the figure and the abstract void are two sides of the same coin.

You can’t stay in the void for too long. It’s too hard a place to be in. And when you stop and think about it, the visual arts, at least in the Western world, is the, it’s the only one of the arts that actually left the figure behind. You think of theatre, you think of film, think of opera, think of dance, any, of the other art forms, like the person is front and centre.

You wouldn’t dream of having no… Well, you could have some very experimental theatre without people in it. I don’t think you’d have much of an audience. And so I think there is a natural inclination for people to want to, artists in particular, to want to trace life, to want to feel the contours of life.

To want to get to know life through coming to know its shape.

Coming to know its contour. And after half a century or more of, art schools and big art institutions like museums being in the grip of a really conceptual ideology. I think we are seeing a big rejection of that from a lot of younger art, younger artists, particularly in the states and also in Europe.

You’re seeing a, big resurgence like Barcelona at the moment, I would say. Centre for that. Just in the last 10 years, you’ve got the Barcelona Academy forming, you’ve got the Museum of European Art, in Barcelona being established, and that has become a major centre for realist painting and sculpture.

That’s all coming from the Florence Academy. And these academies are based on 19th century French Academy models. And it’s all about getting back to the fundamentals of how we recognize, how we see and shape what we see and what we experience in the world around us. So it’s, really exciting to see that shift and it’s happened not through the system, but as a counter to the established system.

Okay. So it’s very much a counterculture for, the university art schools one of, have not changed.

What we’re seeing is a rebirth of academy models that aren’t affiliated with the art schools, and that’s really important. Because, and I know this, having gone through a university art school and teaching people who are seeking some training, who are currently at university art schools, that one of the biggest mistakes that happened to art schools through the 20th century in the western world was their amalgamation with universities.

And I say that because the academic model of assessment is intrinsically foreign and alien to the studio model

For, development. Okay. Like they, they’re just not compatible. Yeah. They are only compatible if you make conceptual art, the ideology. So hopefully we’re starting to see that breaking.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. Okay.

James Waller: Yeah.

Geraldine Hennessy: You’re an Columnist with the West Cork People and in several of articles you highlight the importance of fostering community through art. In your opinion, why are art centres so crucial in regional areas like West Cork and what role do they play in fostering creativity and community?

James Waller: Well, I’d say they’re as important as a sports facilities that you find in every town.

It’s like, not everyone’s a sportsman. It’s like you’ve obviously got all your creative people and they need somewhere to, really develop

And really reflect. The other aspect of that is that, an art centre is really a crucible for forging identity. As a community. It’s where you see and hear and listen, to all the stories that are being created in the community reflected, and that’s where the community can come and reflect upon those things.

So I think that plays a…, that’s how you create a culture, particularly if we’re talking about a visual culture. You need that platform, that viewing platform, that platform for people to come and create in as well, to feel free that they can do that for that culture to thrive and grow.

Otherwise, you, start having, shutdowns, like, we need things to open up Yeah. Rather than close. Yeah. So it was vital in that respect.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. Okay West Cork is known for its vibrant art scene, but artists run spaces often face unique challenges. What are some of the vulnerabilities you’ve observed and how can these spaces be better supported?

James Waller: It’s funny, wherever I’ve been, artists run initiatives, are always vulnerable. And I saw that in Melbourne. I was of part of, two artists organizations in Melbourne, and one of the biggest dangers is burnout. So what we’re very conscious of here is not trying to do too much. We’re, doing.

We are putting on 12 exhibitions a year, running a gallery, just doing that is enough. Also facilitating studios and events. So that’s, it’s a lot to begin with. The main vulnerabilities we’re finding in West Cook at the moment is, building sales and market forces. Like we’ve got, in Skull, the Blue House Gallery, its building is up for sale.So they’re just hanging on there.

In Ballydehob we’ve got working artist studios, husband and wife team. They’re doing fantastic. They’re doing great. Again, they would be vulnerable to the market. Then you’ve got no Cnoc Buí in Union Hall, and that’s a little bit different there. It’s philanthropic, it’s owned by the family, and that’s more stable.

But when we see two out of those, out of that group under threat of sale. With no immediate, alternative, then you’re suddenly looking at the visual arts infrastructure in all of West Cork, is suddenly looking very vulnerable. It’s like if those go then the places that artists can exhibit and work in, diminishing,

And that’s a trend that I’ve seen since I moved here in 2014, that there are no longer any, professional art, dealers that I know of in all of Cork county. Like the professional galleries have gone. What we’ve got are the artist collectives or the artist run spaces. So even there with those, to get professional representation as a professional artist, you need to look to Dublin or Galway because there isn’t even an art dealer in Cork City.

Geraldine Hennessy: Yeah.

James Waller: So that’s where I started ringing alarm bells with Cork County Council.

I’m like, well, look, if you’re going to continue to have a vibrant visual arts culture here, then some kind of intervention needs to take place. Because as an organization, we can’t compete in that market.

Geraldine Hennessy: Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah.

James Waller: So it’s really a, you know, it’s a push and pull between the capitalist forces and what the society wants. What the society needs. Like where do you intervene? Where does government intervene?

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay. Okay. And as an artist working in a more rural area, what are some of the specific, difficulties that you face, and what do you think are the differences between operating in an art gallery in an urban city area versus a rural area like West Cork?

James Waller: Yeah, very good question. For myself, lack of models, it’s a small town.

Geraldine Hennessy: Yeah.

James Waller: Of course you’ve got a smaller pool of people, to work with in terms of, running classes if that’s what you’re doing. The biggest thing probably here, that you don’t get in say, a big city, is, the galleries.

The opportunities to show and promote your work are greatly diminished, so you have to do a lot more work to get yourself out there. And it’s like, if you’re just relying on the local scene, then you are never really going to grow professionally.

So you really do need to do a lot of work to get out there.

On the other hand, I’ve found here personally, that I’ve been able to make work that I wouldn’t have made in Melbourne. where I was coming from. And, it’s given me, I live out, out of town, 10 kilometers out of town with my partner. And there’s just a lot of peace, even here in chronicity.

You’ve got the peace, you’ve got the space, you’ve got the head space. And that’s why artists and writers, musicians love West Cork.

Geraldine Hennessy: Yeah, exactly.

James Waller: Because they’ve got that. So it’s like you trade one for the other, but then you’ve gotta work hard to get it all out there.

Geraldine Hennessy: I suppose then the rural scene, it’s, it makes them more, even more important-community centres even more important, like in, in an area like this.

James Waller: That’s right. Because it’s easy for people to get isolated and, you know, isolation and depression is a danger in a rural setting, you know, and I’ve worked with people and I’ve talked with people who have just needed to get away from the farm. Or, you know, away from the hideaway in the countryside just to circulate.

So in that sense, finding a space, whether it’s here or the tech college or wherever, joining in on a class or taking part in a member’s exhibition, that really enables them to, you know, lift their own life in a way.

Yeah.

Geraldine Hennessy: And the supporting of local ais and cultural organizations is obviously very important to you. What are some underappreciated ways that individuals, businesses and government agencies con contribute to the growth and sustainability of the West Cork art scene?

James Waller: Well, I think we, we need to really, foster a culture of collecting art.

I think that’s a very, that’s a very young culture in Ireland. It’s like Ireland’s got a great depth in literature and music and everything, but when it comes to collecting art, I, don’t think that cultures very old. So I, saw recently that, the director of the Lavitt Gallery gave a talk on art collecting.

I think that’s very timely. So getting, businesses involved in a philanthropic sense, in a collecting sense, you know, that’s hugely important for the local council and government. It’s really about having the conversation with them and try, trying to provide a little bit of direction. In both ways so that they can see what is needed, actually. And, like one of our, one of our initiatives here is to, begin a permanent art collection for the town. Okay. And we’ve got the seeds of that. We don’t necessarily have the space to show it. So we’ve just only in the last week formed a collaboration with the Green Dot café.

Geraldine Hennessy: Oh, yeah.

James Waller: Down the road. And they’re now showing several works from our permanent collection. So that is one way we, envisage like having a mobile permanent gallery through the town, even as an art trail with participating businesses.

Geraldine Hennessy: Sounds like a great idea. Yeah. Yeah.

James Waller: We really want to encourage  “we’ve got a friend of the gallery” stream where people can join up for €50 a year and all that money goes into purchasing work from exhibiting artists.

Geraldine Hennessy: Okay.

James Waller: For the collection.

Geraldine Hennessy: And what is, in your opinion, is the role of the local art centres and galleries should play in an area like West Cork?

James Waller: It’s, it plays a role in education. It plays a role in, kind of mental health. I guess. It, plays a role in. developing, helping artists develop their work, giving artists some space, to create, but also to communicate with other artists.

And that’s how a lot of ideas start fostering. And it’s also how we don’t feel alone.

Geraldine Hennessy: Yeah. Yeah.

James Waller: So it’s like for all those things. Even we had two exhibition openings, so far this year that have brought together a lot of people. In January, we always have a student exhibition.

And it’s, adults and juniors. So it’s kids as young as nine and, you know, seniors as well coming together in a multi-generational show. And I can’t think of a better way to illustrate how that brings community together and helps kind of foster, you know, identity and all those things.

Geraldine Hennessy: So thinking specifically about Clonakilty, what would it take to make it a town known for art?

James Waller: Well, it’s already very well known for its guitar festival. For the visual arts,  people who are here still don’t know where the art centre is. So I think one, one of the biggest shifts that needs to happen here is, for us to , whether through the council or through our own means, find a space that is more visible, that has ground floor accessibility, that is wheelchair accessible, that, has a much more attractive, ground floor opening that you can see into.

We don’t have any of that yet. Still we have, you know, incredible demand. Yeah. For what we’re doing. There’s over 50 artists a year showing in the gallery. Between all the group shows, there’s 90 students a week coming through, accessing classes. So even with those disadvantages, we are still, seeing a high need for the services, but to become more visible and for Clonakilty to become more known for its arts, the arts centre itself needs to be a higher profile building. It needs to be integrated into a greater plan for the town. Because we, know the town’s projected to grow to 20,000. Not sure what it is now, but with its population growth, obviously the services need to grow with it. And I think as there are empty council and buildings on Kent Street, there’s a golden opportunity there for local groups and council to get together and form a more exciting dynamic vision for the future of that part of the town, which is dead in its centre.

Geraldine Hennessy: Front and centre so.

James Waller: Front and centre, not dead.

Geraldine Hennessy: Well, thank you so much, James, for chatting us today.

James Waller: Oh, you’re very welcome.

Thank you for all your other people that, work here, been very kind with their time. If you want to hear any more about James and the art centre here, you can find links on corkcreative.ie,

James Waller: That’s great. Thank you for having us.

Geraldine Hennessy: Thanks you so much. That’s great.