Please note, this transcript is machine generated so errors may occur.

[00:00:00:08]
Nadine:
I would definitely say to a creative in Cork you’re in the right place. Like, Corkonians, they’re going to give you a chance. So make sure that you knock on dead when you do get that chance. Yeah, to a creative in Cork, just go for it. Originally the plan was to have my husband do it and have everything in house, but they always say you shouldn’t work. You shouldn’t work with family. You’re your partner. So we didn’t do that. And then there was a massive hunt to find that person that would actually be able to put on paper what was happening in this head of mine. I remember when Noah’s Cork Adventure was shortlisted for a literary award last year, I reread the email just a few times because I just couldn’t believe it. It was just the fact that this idea that I had in my head for so long turned into a book and it’s now been recognised and now being acknowledged.

[00:01:02:10]
Geraldine:
So today we welcome Nadine Hughes-Campbell, a children’s author based here in Cork. So Nadine, a huge welcome to the Cork Creative Podcast. Our listeners love hearing from creatives who are either from Cork or who have made Cork their home. Could you start by telling us about your own Cork story and your connection to the area?

[00:01:20:23]
Nadine:
Absolutely Geraldine, and thank you so much for having me. So as you can tell by the accent, I wasn’t born and raised here in Cork. I’m originally from Montreal, Quebec in Canada. And I moved over to Ireland eight years ago. So I spent my first year in Dublin. I was working. I had only had a one year work contract. I told my parents that I’d be right back. But I met a Cork man and he likes the joke that he saved me and he proved… Lord, he’s out. He lowered me down to Cork. And eight years later, my mum’s still waiting for me to come home. So yeah, I now happily and proudly call Cork my home. We have got two beautiful children, a dog and this is home and I’ve settled here in Cork. So that’s a little bit about my Cork story and how I wound it up from Montreal all the way over here to the rebel county.

[00:02:17:00]
Geraldine:
Okay. And how did you then get into writing and becoming an author?

[00:02:21:07]
Nadine:
My son was my inspiration. So as many know, when you get a little one into your life, whether you’re a parent and aunt, you know, a grandparent or whatnot, your reading material will change. So my rereading material did change and we started reading a lot of picture books. And I noticed that he gravitated to one particular book and it was because the little boy on the cover looked like him. And it kind of made me realise that a lot of the books are actually all the books that were in his library that were gifted to us featured either some sort of animal or a white child. And I actually found out that there are more books that have an animal or myth like mythical like creature and they were a child of colour. So I said, you know what, I’ll write a book. I’ll write a book for my son. And whether it goes anywhere or not, it’ll be he’ll have a book that he’ll be able to identify with. And I know that there’s so many other children out there who’ll be able to identify with it as well. So I head off and I wrote his first book, which was Noah’s Quark Adventure. My father and also a very proud Quark Man jokes that I’ve picked so I could have just ended there. But I continued. I continue and I wrote him an entire series. So going back to the question, yeah, so with my son, he was the inspiration for it. And I’m very grateful for that.

[00:03:41:21]
Geraldine:
And has it become a personal mission for you to, I suppose, get more than like the more children of colour, say, or more diverse characters built into your books?

[00:03:54:06]
Nadine:
Yeah, absolutely. So every single book that I write features diversity in some sort of way. And it’s not, you know, I’m not intended to be, you know, I’m doing air quotes now, “ a woke book”, you know, where I’m featuring every single colour of life. I can only speak to my experience and my story. I don’t know the experience, for example, of an Asian child that may be living in Ireland, or you know, a child from a different religion, religious background. I know my story. So I do my best to incorporate the world that my son, you know, lives in and is experiencing right now that change in Ireland. So yeah, again, I do my best to feature as many diverse characters within the book. And I just want children as they read the book to see the book and for it to become more, again, I don’t want to hate using the word normal, because, you know, it’s not unnormal to see a child, you know, of a diverse background, but I just wanted to be more of a, I don’t know, more of just like an everyday thing, the same way you would brush your teeth. Yeah, okay. So yeah.

[00:05:01:16]
Geraldine:
Okay. And let’s talk about Noah, himself, your main character. When you were first creating him, what were the most, I suppose, important qualities you wanted to give him to carry this kind of message of representation and inclusion?

[00:05:16:21]
Nadine:
Yeah, so I think, you know, the character was based on my son, obviously, and the number one qualities that I put into the character that my son demonstrates is kindness and curiosity. I feel that kindness and curiosity can take you a long way. You know, my son is the kindest little soul out there. I know that every parent will say that about their child. What I mean, he goes as far as, you know, mom, don’t step there because you have a slug, don’t step on the ant, and we have to save the butterfly. And just every little thing he just wants to protect and to, you know, you’ve got to be nice to everyone. And I love that about him. Yeah. And that curiosity, I think curiosity is also extremely important because, you know, as I mentioned, everyone, you know, we’re not all the same, but if we’re kind and curious about something, we can begin to understand that other person’s perspective. And I think that can take us, you know, a very long way. So I definitely think that those are the two biggest important characteristics that I wanted embedded into this character. And I feel that, like I said, every parent will try to instil into their child. And I think that as adults, we kind of forget sometimes to be kind and curious.

[00:06:25:10]
Geraldine:
Yes, unfortunately. And the series also kind of focuses on cultural discovery through imaginative storytelling. How do you balance the imaginative part with the responsibility of representing different cultures authentically for such a young audience?

[00:06:43:21]
Nadine:
Yeah, so every so the series is a travel based series. So no, it goes on adventures, you know, all over Ireland as well as, you know, abroad as well. And all the places that I write about are places that we visited as a family. So everything is written from the eyes of five year olds. When I was growing up, unfortunately, we didn’t have the means to travel as much as we do with my children now. But I think that it’s just so beneficial. So any time that we can get we pack up the kids and they’re going to go somewhere. So all the places that again, that I write about, we’ve been to it. And you know, I’ll ask my son, you know, what did you love most about this trip? And I’m writing from his perspective, you know, yeah, I don’t know what a child loves, you know, when they went to Spain or when they went to Galway or Donegal, I don’t know. So I’m writing it from his perspective. And of course, his research, that’s backing it up as well. So you know, I’ll go home and I’ll research, you know, certain things to kind of make sure that I’m representing it, you know, as authentically as I can. But again, it’s coming from the eyes of a child. So I can’t as well I can’t take responsibility for representing every single culture. I will absolutely do it to the best that I can. And again, it’s always through the eyes of a child.

[00:08:01:13]
Geraldine:
And a great excuse to always get out and travel. Yeah,

[00:08:07:02]
Nadine:
my husband loves it. We have to go abroad.

[00:08:11:22]
Geraldine:
But it’s a lovely legacy for your son, too. Like, you know, because if all the books are somewhere you’ve been, you’re like, well, we’ve you’ve got almost like a time a timestamp of all the all your travel for such.

[00:08:22:14]
Nadine:
Yeah, it’s kind of an interesting way to become his little lonely planet. So they actually kind of will pull. So there’s four in the series, what the fourth one is coming out and they’ll kind of pull them and then just kind of be like, oh, I remember this and I remember that.

[00:08:35:09]
Geraldine:
Yeah, yeah. And nice personal thing for him as well. Yeah. That’s just a view. Yeah. And he’s a great little researcher, your own son, like how brilliant.

[00:08:46:16]
Nadine:
Yeah. But even for other kids as well. Like I’ve heard feedback from parents were like, you know, they’d be like, oh, you know, we’re going to Berlin. And so we got the book and I know she’s excited to see this and she can’t wait to see that. And she’s been doing her own research. And like, well, that’s fantastic.

[00:08:59:16]
Geraldine:
Like, yeah. Yeah. Very good. And children’s books are such a kind of beautiful collaboration between text and image. How do you work with an illustrator, I suppose, to translate your vision of inclusion and curiosity, as you mentioned, there into the artwork?

[00:09:17:01]
Nadine:
Yeah. So that was a bit difficult. So originally the plan was to have my husband do it and have everything in house. But they always say you shouldn’t work. You shouldn’t work with family, especially your partner. So we didn’t do that. And then there was a massive hunt to find that person that would actually be able to put on paper what was happening in this head of mine. And that took a very long time. But I did find my illustrator who she is just brilliant. She’s like a blank canvas. And I have to describe every single thing to the T, you know, like if there’s an illustration where Noah has a ninety nine in his hand, I have to describe to the T what’s a ninety nine and what you put on it and how it would look at everything. And I find that extremely fun creating the storyboard for her. And then she just puts it on paper. And of course, it’s a collaboration. You know, I don’t know, I’m not an illustrator, so I can’t tell you the ins and out of what will or won’t work on paper. And so she’ll kind of come back and say, you know what, Nadine, like, I know you want to put this all on paper, but that’s just not really going to work or that doesn’t look right. Or can we try this? So it’s a fantastic collaboration. But yeah, I think it’s just finding that person that you can click with that can see that vision. You know, I guess like you would in any relationship, right? If you know it needs to work.

[00:10:48:04]
Geraldine:
It’s good, I suppose, that you’re so precise because, you know, if you’re giving her that precision and then she can add her own flair or maybe not so much here. So it really is a collaboration as such.

[00:10:59:23]
Nadine:
Yeah, absolutely. And it’s been a beautiful collaboration so far. So, yeah, like I said, the fourth book is there. And, you know, I plan on keeping her for as long as the series will take us. Yeah, Polina, she’s fantastic.

[00:11:12:07]
Geraldine:
There he goes. Your books have been shortlisted for literary awards and are stuck internationally, which is a massive achievement. What’s that first big high, that first nomination or that first international order feel like?

[00:11:25:23]
Nadine:
That high is still very much there. I remember when Noah’s Cork Adventure was shortlisted for a literary award last year. I reread the email just a few times because I just couldn’t believe it. It was just the fact that this idea that I had in my head for so long turned into a book and it’s now being recognised and now being acknowledged. And this year, Noah’s Galway Adventure was shortlisted for a literary award and the entire series was shortlisted for the Irish Country Magazine Awards, which is just in my head a bit crazy. Like, it’s just insane to think that I was able to do this in such a short amount of time and that people are actually resonating with the message, the vision that I have for the series. And same with getting the book sold internationally. It was just so surreal to think that people outside of my county or even the country are actually interested in the book and they want to jump on the adventure as well. But even just on top of that, I think another, I don’t know if I want to call it a high, but this warm feeling that I get every single time was knowing that my book was accepted to enter the libraries nationally. So just the fact that a child from all the way at the top to down here in the Rebel County can access this book at their local library, that’s just an amazing feeling for me. And I still get that little fuzzy, warm feeling, or I guess if you want to call it a high, every time I go into the library with my kids and I might see a kid reading the book in the middle of the circle or whatnot, or I might send me pictures of it. So I think that’s just an amazing one because I have to really, you know, that’s really what the mission of the series is to ensure that, you know, all kids are seen on the pages of the books that they read. So yeah.

[00:13:14:08]
Geraldine:
And having it in the library, I think, makes it so accessible to so many different people. And it must be so weird going into a library and there is your book. I just can’t even imagine it.

[00:13:24:23]
Nadine:
It is extremely weird. I think, you know, every now and then I’ll kind of go into the library catalogue and be like, oh, who’s taking it out today?

[00:13:33:03]
Geraldine:
It’s like doing a Google search for yourself.

[00:13:36:18]
Nadine:
Yeah, I haven’t gone that far now. But it’s just lovely to see, like you said, just lovely to see when it’s on loan that yeah, it’s just accessible to all the children regardless of what the situation is. Yeah.

[00:13:50:20]
Geraldine:
Absolutely. Very good. We talked about, I suppose, the successes. I know the path of an author is never straightforward. Can you tell us, I suppose, about a significant challenge or a low point you had to overcome? And what did that teach you?

[00:14:06:03]
Nadine:
I think really the lowest point was just getting the courage to start. I mean, the actual publishing itself, I don’t want to say it’s straightforward, but I mean, like it’s been done. You know, I’m up against these big publishing houses. But they’ve done the work for me. They know what’s going to work. They’ve pumped in that money into doing that research. So it’s just a matter of literally grabbing my son or my daughter’s paper book from their library and copy pasting. Like, you know, I find it interesting when people try and reinvent the wheel or something that’s been working for so long and for so well and works for a reason. So the actual publishing part, people might think that that’s extremely challenging. But it’s not. I didn’t think that that was extremely challenging. I thought really navigating the business was challenging because, you know, regardless of what area you’re in, you know, marketing and distribution of your product, like that’s extremely hard to navigate because you are trying to speak to your audience. But there’s millions of other companies that are shouting and have been shouting at them. So it’s trying to find your voice. And I think that really would have been the hardest or the biggest challenge. But yeah, definitely, I would say any low point that I had was just getting that courage to start because once I got the ball rolling, it was easy. I don’t want to say easy, but it was just a matter of researching and pivoting.

[00:15:41:00]
Geraldine:
So you do you think like the business side of being an author is the challenging bit the marketing, the distribution that’s the hard part of it?

[00:15:48:13]
Nadine:
Yeah, because you’re up against millions of books. You walk into Essen’s, you walk into chapters, you walk into, you know, you walk into any bookstore and it’s a sea of books. And now with the likes of KDP and anyone being able to publish on Amazon, it’s even bigger. So you have to find a way and ensure that your book is standing out that people remember this series, they remember this character and that they keep kind of coming back to you. So that’s extremely challenging. And, you know, again, it’s that marketing aspect of, you know, you’re now having to jump into the likes of, you know, social media and finding new ways to kind of stay relevant. And you would think like it’s a children’s picture book, like, you know, like, either you like it or you don’t like it. But it’s like, no,

[00:16:40:19]
Geraldine:
yeah, always be just always trying to promote it. It’s hard to find new ways to do it, I suppose.

[00:16:47:08]
Nadine:
Yeah. So that’s just a bit challenging. And I think that can be said for honestly, any business, you know, whatever business you open up, it’s just that whole marketing aspect of ensuring that you’re always relevant.

[00:16:59:16]
Geraldine:
I suppose the thing that is definitely in your favour is the fact that you’re kind of suppose you’re you’ve got to focus on maybe representation and inclusivity that other books probably don’t. So at least I suppose you have that kind of thing that you can use as that little niche that you can set you apart from maybe everyone else or every other children’s book.

[00:17:21:18]
Nadine:
Yeah, I would think so. And I think just also being authentic, you know what I mean? Again, nothing. The big publishing houses have the money and they’ve done the research and they know, for example, what’s trending or what’s coming up or what whatnot. But I’m a mom who’s writing this who wrote it for my son, who knows that there is millions of other moms out there who feel the same way and want the same thing for their children. So I think it’s that authenticity as well that kind of helps me stand out. But again, I still have to shout and be like, remember, I’m a mom too. I want your kids to feel included as well.

[00:17:56:05]
Geraldine:
So yeah, so it’s just. It’s just to be heard. So I suppose it’s the big challenge trying to be heard amongst all the others.

[00:18:04:11]
Nadine:
Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

[00:18:06:04]
Geraldine:
OK, and what does your creative process look like? Are you someone who kind of waits for inspiration to strike or are you disciplined and you sit down your desk every day and do a little bit of writing every day? Or how does that work?

[00:18:18:16]
Nadine:
It’s sporadic. I think it’s because the kids are small at the moment, so they need me. And of course, I want to be there. You know, I can’t be pushing him aside after he’s the reason why I’m writing the book. But it’s it kind of just comes to me. So whenever an idea for, you know, the next book kind of comes, it comes to me and then I’ll kind of drop something on my phone and I’ll kind of draw ideas as it comes. But when it’s actually time to sit down and write book, then yes, that’s when the structure comes in and I have to allocate certain time during the day to focus strictly on writing and ensure that, you know, I’m adhering to the timeline with my editor and everything like that. So when it’s time to buckle down, yeah, I buckle down. But I think the creative part is getting, you know, for example, what adventure are we going to go on next and how am I going to do the story? And, you know, trying to thinking of certain lines that I really want to feature in there and also certain words, because every single book will feature the language from that location. So, you know, if I want to use the word, I don’t know, like in the Berlin book, you know, Guten Tag, like, OK, how am I going to feature that in there? And like, where am I going to run it? So that will just kind of be at random and it’s always on my phone and a notepad. And then once I’ve got that chunk, I can actually buckle down and focus and just kind of get to the writing. And then, yeah, like I said, make sure that I’m adhering to that editor schedule and I can get things out on time, which isn’t always easy, Bush. I do my best.

[00:19:50:03]
Geraldine:
It’s hard when you’re like a working mom, as such, like, you know, you try and I suppose get like little chunks to try and do it, but we are focused on when you need to be. Yeah.

[00:19:58:19]
Nadine:
Yeah. Yeah. I would say it’s a lot easier now that smallies are back in school. But, yeah, the summer, summertime was a write off.

[00:20:07:00]
Geraldine:
I think most working parents say that. Yeah. And get through the summer, isn’t it? And those holidays. Yeah. And you’ve a website and an Instagram presence and like in the modern publishing world, how important is building, I suppose, that direct to read your community been for you?

[00:20:24:23]
Nadine:
It’s been extremely important. And at the beginning, I didn’t really think that anybody would care. Yeah. You know, even myself as a parent, like you want to know, you know, who’s that face behind that book that your child loves or that toy or whatnot. You want to understand, you know, where they’re coming. What’s their purpose or what’s their vision or their mission? You know, you want to show that it also aligns with yours. So I think now, as I’m going two years in, I’m actually really seeing how important it is to have that direct link between my I want to see my reader. But I mean, I guess my grown up, my big person, the person who’s buying the book and the person who’s reading the book to the child. So that’s been extremely important. Yeah. Going back to, you know, social media, like it’s that big person that’s on all of these social media platforms. And it’s them that I have to ensure that they have that connection with me and that they can reach me. And, you know, that I’m also even engaging with them, you know, like asking them, you know, where would they want to see Noah go next or what place that they really love that Noah went to. So, yeah, I definitely think that it’s extremely important. And I’m not saying that it’s impossible, you know, to have success without it. But I would say that it would be very hard to kind of build that trust and that relationship with, you know, your consumer base.

[00:21:51:18]
Geraldine:
And so does their feedback so influence maybe kind of ideas?

[00:21:55:14]
Nadine:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think because ideally I said that every second book would be an Irish book. So I would use all of our travels abroad and I would write about them. And then actually getting feedback from, you know, the little ones. And after every single reading, I do ask, where would you what do you want to see Noah go next? Or what do you want to see? What did you love or which story did you love? And they always brought it home to Ireland. Like they were always like, oh, you know, go to I don’t know, go to Tipperary. You know, that’s where my dad’s from or go to they’d be yelling at all these places. And I’m just kind of like, oh, so you didn’t care too much about Berlin and you don’t really want to go to Italy or anything like that. OK, that’s great. So then I actually made sure that, you know, that all the books after would be Irish based books. Yeah. And some people would say, well, you’re kind of pigeonholing yourself to just to just Ireland. And I totally disagree because I think people forget that, you know, there may be only four million on the island, but there’s 80 million living outside. Yeah. I want to ensure that their children are still keeping a bit of this heritage and this culture with them as well. So the books have been doing well internationally because of that. So, yeah, so there are little ones here really do love the Irish books, I think, because they can relate to them. And again, it’s that sense where they see themselves in it. So that’s what I’ve been doing. I’ve been following their lead.

[00:23:21:21]
Geraldine:
And for another person, maybe a parent or a business person or an artist who’s a story that they feel needs to be told, but is I suppose stuck in that part of I’m not an author. What is your single biggest piece of practical advice that you’d give to them to suppose just to get started?

[00:23:38:21]
Nadine:
Just do it. You know, I swear like Nike, the best tagline ever. Yeah. Do it. Like, that was the hardest thing for me was it was that imposter syndrome. Like, I can’t do this. People are gonna look at me and think like, you know, who she thinks she is. But you just have to do it. Yeah. Because the worst thing, in my opinion, is to have that regret of not never having tried. I might…. my mom always said it’s better to try and fail, and to never do it at all. And she’s so right. Just do it. What is the worst that’s gonna happen? If you write that book, and it’s absolute poop, then you scrap it. And you write it again. But I bet you would have learned something from that. But you would have said, Oh, well, maybe I could tweak it again and do this. Or maybe writing isn’t for me. Maybe I should do better, you know, on a podcast, or maybe, you know, like, I don’t know, blogging is my thing, it might lead you to something else. But if you don’t do it, like all you’ll have is just this doubt in your head or this Yeah, what if so

[00:24:50:19]
Geraldine:
what if and you’re always wondering and it’s never it’ll you’ll never do anything then or such like if you do it and you fail, well, at least you’ve done it, you can move on. But if you might not, you might do very well.

[00:25:02:06]
Nadine:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you just got to try. And I know it’s easier said than done. But just do it.

[00:25:08:20]
Geraldine:
I think that’s with every job or anything that you’re it’s always the biggest thing is just doing us or just making the decision to change. I think once you have a chance, the dawn, it’s so much easier than like, you know, it’s just making that decision is the big thing.

[00:25:25:11]
Nadine:
Yeah, yeah. And like I said, I know it’s definitely easier for me to say this. But I think, for me myself, personally, another thing is don’t do too much research. Because had I researched the heck out of publishing, and had I researched the heck out of, you know, being an author, and had I spent days and weeks on Google, I wouldn’t have done it. Yeah. Because that fear would have been in me think like, Jesus, this is a lot of work. Like, I’m not like, I don’t have time for this. And I can, I couldn’t possibly be doing all of this. I wouldn’t have done it. But I just jumped in. So yeah, don’t over bring over research.

[00:26:05:23]
Geraldine:
And based on your journey, what advice would you give to a creative in Cork about building a brand and a business, not just creating the art itself?

[00:26:13:19]
Nadine:
I honestly cannot thank Cork enough for lifting me up. And I say this, honestly, and I’ve said it to my family and friends back home, but I don’t think I would have been where I am today, had I wrote this book back home in Canada. Okay, and there’s this amazing. I don’t know what it is. I don’t know if it’s the berries tea. I don’t know what but the people here in Cork are just so supportive. It’s unreal. And the amount of times you know, like when I was first starting out, you know, it was kind of like, oh, you know, it’s just it’s your one from up the street. Just give a book a try. And it was just like they didn’t know who I was. It was just because so and so told so and so who told so and so and they just want to support and they just want to encourage and uplift everybody. So I would definitely say to a creative in Cork you’re in the right place. Like the Corkconians that they’re going to give you a chance. So make sure that you knock them dead when they do when you do get that chance. But just yeah, just do it like this couldn’t have been the better place. And cork is just such like a capital of just creatives, you know, from all the festivals, from all the talent that’s come out of cork is just Kelly and Murphy. Hello. Yeah, yeah. Unreal what cork produces. So yeah, so creative and work just yeah, go for it. Go for it.

[00:27:42:01]
Geraldine:
Very good. And finally, I suppose what what’s next for Noah?

[00:27:45:08]
Nadine:
So Noah’s got another adventure that will be coming out this winter. And yeah, we’ll be staying here in Ireland. And you’ll just have to wait and see to where he heads off to but definitely get your bags packs. You know, we’re going on a little road trip. So yeah.

[00:28:01:19]
Geraldine:
Great. Well done. Can’t wait to see. Thanks so much Nadine for joining us on the Cork Creative podcast. If you’d like to learn more about Nadine and your books about Noah’s adventures, you can find links to her socials and websites and corkcreative.ie. Thanks so much for having me.